Gentlefolk, here are the lies and misrepresentations that wfgers so often tell you and themselves. Please scroll down to read details on each lie/misrep and the hard reality. Lie/misrep #1: "wfg works for many successful people. My upline’s a doctor/engineer/[enter respected profession here], who made [enter fabulous sum here] last month!”
Lie/misrep #2: "wfg is backed by aegon group, a fortune 500 company."
Lie/misrep #3: "we focus on sales, not recruiting. We are not a ‘pyramid scheme’. "
Lie/misrep #4: "if wfg’s such as scam, why hasn’t it been shut down?"
Lie/misrep #5: “you can make ‘ridiculous’ money with wfg. You’re not a ‘wage slave.’”
Lie/misrep #6: “it’s not a j.O.B. You own your own biz.”
Lie/misrep #7: “don’t judge us on ‘a few bad apples. Lie/misrep #8: "wfg is competitive because it offers a wide range of products from many different companies.”
Lie/misrep #9: “ffiul is the best kind of life insurance policy. It’s a ‘permanent’ policy with a cash value and a floor so ‘you’ll never lose money.’
Lie/misrep #10: “forbes covered us.’”
Wfg is a multi-level marketing Mlm) financial services company. The program wfg agents too often follow is based on lies. For the vast majority of its clients and agents, the wfg experience is--or will become--everything from a mild brief let-down to a mind-bending nightmare that wrecks everything they have: family, friendships, wealth.
The system creators wove the web of deception so well, the agent-victim doesn’t know he’s trapped in it until it’s too late. Not until he’s invested too much time, money, and emotions into this abusive and deeply dishonest program. By which time it’s too late--he’s made himself part of the big lie. Acting like a highly animated zombie, he’s in deep denial and spreads the gross dishonesty.
*harming* people and families--not helping them--is part of wfg’s dna. At least as too often executed by its irregular army of high-fantasy low-fact agents.
How can this be? Why does wfg even exist?
As deep throat told us: “follow the money.” wfg makes huge coin for a privileged few. Your wfg nightmare is a *dream* for this mlm’s corporate overlords and relative handful of agents. These privileged few are:
1) wfg corporate;
2) participating carriers, transamerica most of all, and;
3) the top 0.5% of agents who’ve effectively locked up the pyramid peak.
Many--maybe most--of these top 0.5% agents got in on the ground floor of this multi-level marketing Mlm) organization in the 1990s when it was called world marketing alliance Wma). For reasons i give below, these top agents can effectively pull up the ladder out of reach of newer associates. They can drop down the ladder every so often to let climb up a few folks. Just often enough to continue to propagate the sham of “opportunity for all” if only “you work hard enough.”
Transamerica and wfg corporate cash in hugely from wfg’s high-profit ultra-low overhead model. Uplines press their agents to sell very spendy fat-commission products like transamerica’s financial foundation indexed universal life Ffiul) policy. Pricey products that most buyers will give up so transamerica avoids to pay even a dime in benefits. As far as recruits, the more the merrier! wfg corporate “ka-chings” $100 per head. A huge amount of this fee is profit. Corporate spends almost nothing on overhead, because agents do nearly all the work, which includes all the recruiting.
Transamerica’s parent holding company, dutch giant aegon n.V. Lends a hand here. It greases congress pols’ palms to help keep legal such financial devices like the ffiul insurance policy, an elaborate long-game fraud. Search on “open secrets insurance companies” and you’ll see aegon ranks well up the list of donations, giving almost a million dollars of campaign contributions to these fed elected officials so far this year. That’s a small price for aegon to pay to help keep legal decades-long confidence games like the ffiul.
To keep feeding the voracious wfg dragon with fresh green, uplines must push their agents to aggressively recruit, and sell harmful products to, everyone possible, even people near and dear to them. As such, wfgers are too often deeply deflective, deceptive, dishonest, and damaging. The dishonesty flows all the way down from the top, from the corporate level, which instructs its agents to hide important information.
Let’s look under wfg’s hood. Let’s take apart some of the more common lies and misrepresentations that wfgers tell us and themselves. Let’s discuss how you can protect yourself from this profoundly unhealthy parasitic organization. A company that, like a pathogenic virus, shows us how to feed the selfish devils of our natures and suppress our better angels, and to teach us how to replicate the same big lie into other people. A company that infects and harms many thousands of victims for the crass enrichment of a select soulless few.
10 lies and misreps wfgers tell you and themselves--and the hard realities:
Lie/misrep #1: "wfg works for many successful people. My upline’s a cpa/engineer/[enter respected profession here], who made [enter fabulous income here] last month!”
Reality: it’s very common for mlm agents to wildly exaggerate their earnings and other professions, even outright lie about them. They justify their deception by telling themselves that the end justifies the means. To “fake it till they make it.”
It’s common for agents to show spreadsheets and powerpoint slides showing their earnings. Ask to see their actual paychecks and bank statements. Alas, some uplines have even doctored those sources so even these “direct” docs fail to offer ironclad guarantees the upline made what he or she claims. Look for other telltale signs. How well does the upline dress? Does she wear real or costume jewelry? Does that “$250k/year” upline drive a $10k car? It’s possible the costume jewelry and budget car is her choice. But that’s highly unlikely. It’s vitally important to project a successful image to succeed in sales. So if the upline really does earn well, she’ll likely be driving a lexus, benz, or other status-mobile as a necessary cost of doing biz. Sometimes the upline will claim a respectable title in a high-earning career, e.G. A doctor, engineer, or cpa. Comments you read here in ssed consumer, reddit, and elsewhere, discuss accounts of people who claim to come from a given profession, but who fail to show up in internet searches. Or they show up, but they only attended college or university for the given profession but never worked in that profession. Did they even graduate in their stated profession? Bottom line: take nothing these people tell you on faith. Verify all you can.
Lie/misrep #2: "wfg is backed by aegon group, a fortune 500 company."
Reality: official public information on this relationship is sorely lacking, almost non-existent. You get conflicting information on it from various corporate employees. Bottom line: we simply don’t know for sure wfg’s current status vis-a-vis aegon. What’s clear is that wfg largely disappeared from aegon’s official financial reports in 2007. If aegon does indeed own wfg, it isolated itself from wfg’s bad behavior. Indeed by definition, wfg corporate largely isolated itself from the rampant dodgy dealings and outright fraud among its 53,000+ agents and near-198,000 new recruits Wfg 2015 figures). Because they are independent contractors, these agents must assume the legal burden for their own actions and conduct. Check out the 28 march 2016 review at p*ssed consumer titled “aegon/transamerica doesn't own wfg after all?!” to read more on why wfger’s proud claims that “aegon backs wfg” are meaningless at best, and quite possibly wrong. When--folks not “if” but “when”--wfg runs into financial, regulatory, and legal troubles, you can’t assume aegon will step in and bail out this deeply troubled little mlm.
Lie/misrep #3: "we focus on sales, not recruiting. We are not a ‘pyramid scheme’."
Reality: wfg corporate doesn’t tell agents to recruit more than sell. But the low-repeat sales of high-commission life insurance and retirement products like the ffiul and variable annuities pretty much force you to recruit way more than you sell. Thus you, the wfg agent, will personally violate pyramid scheme laws.
The us government's federal trade commission Ftc) makes clear what’s a pyramid scheme:
"pyramid schemes ... Promise consumers or investors large profits based primarily on recruiting others to join their program... We bring cases against pyramid schemes under the ftc act."
You can read the full text at www dot ftc dot gov/public-statements/1998/05/pyramid-schemes
Wfg corporate’s guideline of “3 sales and 3 recruits in 30 days” (“3/3/30”) keeps the official guideline oh-so-barely within legal limits. But the open secret among agents is that, given the low-repeat sales of life insurance and financial retirement products like annuities, agents must recruit or die. Life insurance is not a low-cost consumable like soaps or face creams. As my recruiter wrote to me: “how much can you sell?!” as such, it’s only a matter of time wfg’s contractors will firmly cross that sell/recruit borderline--and document their overwhelming recruitment focus in emails and web posts--to firmly establish a pyramid scheme pattern. Then the fed and state regulators can “whooosh” in. If you want to read more on this, check out this 16 may 2016 review at p*ssed consumer: “will wfg die? Dissect this evidence. Do your homework. Decide for yourself.”
Lie/misrep #4: "if wfg’s such a scam, why hasn’t it been shut down?"
Reality: again, it’s only a matter of time before we see more formal action against wfg and/or some of its agents, which could result in prosecutions and shutdown. Sooner or later, the regulators and the courts will catch up to them once their collective malfeasance rises enough to grab the authorities’ attention. Starting in 2007, lawyers and regulators have had their hands full with biz titans like lehman bros, enron, and arthur andersen, all of which fell from grace due to massive fraud and systematic gross wrongdoing. Recently goldman sachs agreed to pay $5b to investors to whom gs admitted it deliberately sold shoddy investments to clients. Let’s not forget bad behavior from transamerica, the carrier that issues the financial foundation indexed universal life Ffiul) policy, wfg’s flagship insurance product. Google “feller vs transamerica” and you’ll read about a major class-action suit just launched against that insurer. Thousands of transamerica xul policyholders will have, or already had, to cough up massive premiums or lose their policies. Even if a company’s very big and been around a long time, it can still offer you a poor and even harmful deal and even act fraudulently.
Lie/misrep #5: “you can make ‘ridiculous’ money with wfg. You’re not a ‘wage slave.’”
Reality: yes, and you can become president of the united states, prime minister of canada, and be the first person to walk on mars. While anything’s *possible* the way the wfg pyramid is set up makes it virtually impossible for you to earn a living at this business. Even worse, it just about requires you to sell loads of inferior and even very harmful products, especially transamerica’s ffiul policy. You have to ask yourself: is the money worth deceiving and ripping off hundreds, even thousands, of people? Is the money worth the fact you knowingly deceive and rip off even *one* person? How much are you willing to violate your ethics and morals, to knowingly spread bad karma?
Let’s look at this in more detail. Search for “wfg’s compensation & promotion guidelines squarespace.” that 8-page pdf will pop up for you. Go to page 5. In the “compensation guidelines” chart, you see that wfg starts out its new associates at, in effect, a pathetically low 25% of the commission on your sales. Most independent marketing orgs Imos) pay their agents 70--80% of commission from their first day. That’s a greater percentage than what even wfg’s senior marketing directors make.
In that same chart, see where wfg awards more points for “wrl” products? “wrl” stands for western reserve life assurance co. Of ohio, which merged into--you guessed it!--transamerica. Wfg wants to project its independent “we offer many products from many carriers” image. The wrl label helps hide the fact that wfg heavily skews to transamerica and esp that carrier’s favored fat-commission product, the ffiul. Wfg is, above all, a recruiting machine and a sales machine for transamerica's ffiul.
Ok, let’s say you don’t want to flog “wrl” products like the ffiul? No problem right? You can just work harder to sell the other products, right? But what if your upline thinks you’re not being “coachable” enough? In those same wfg guidelines, on page 8, you find these:
Footnote 2: promotion requires approval of direct upline smd.
Footnote 3: promotion requires approval of direct smd and ceo md
Footnote 12: meeting the minimum requirements does not guarantee inclusion in the base shop pool.
This means *even if you meet the sales and recruiting goals to move up* your upline can block your progress. Wfg makes it clear that, regardless of its promises that you “own your own biz” and have “freedom of carrier/product choice,” you’re forced to play ball with your upline to move up to real money--which almost certainly means you have to recruit, recruit, recruit, and sell loads of the very expensive and very risky ffiul. It’s small wonder i’ve seen agents push the ffiul at pie-in-the-sky 8% average rates of return illustrations onto lots of people who can’t really afford it. In their later years as their premiums surge higher, these will force them to give up the ffiul and lose everything.
Lie/misrep #6: “it’s not a j.O.B. You own your own biz.”
Reality: wfg itself makes clear, in several places, that this favorite wfg selling point is a myth. You can find the hard truth spelled out in your associate membership agreement Ama) and in wfg's compensation and promotion guidelines. You most definitely *don’t* “own your own biz.” you are not master or mistress of your wfg destiny.
First, see here on page 8 of that ama:
“b. ...The associate acknowledges that wfg owns all rights in and to the following: ...Ii) the identities of and all lists of the members comprising wfg; and Iii) the identities of and all lists of the customers of wfg...Which constitute **property owned solely by wfg.** associate agrees that associate shall have no proprietary interest in, or ownership of, any customers, other associates of wfg including downline associates, or products and services. **wfg shall have exclusive proprietary interest in, or ownership, of all customers, and contractual relationships with other associates and the product providers**.”
You can read this for yourself. Search for the 22-page ama-us.Pdf. You’ll find it at mywfg dot com. Even some veteran wfgers are shocked to learn that, when they leave the mlm, they can’t take their book of business with them.
Second, see wfg’s compensation & promotion guidelines. These make clear that, even if you meet sales and recruiting goals, you get no guarantee you'll advance up the wfg pyramid. See lie/misrep #5 above for more info on that.
Sounds more like your j.O.B. All the time doesn't it? Except worse. All you are is a contractor who pays for everything that is usually paid for by traditional companies Training, books, travel etc) meanwhile wfg restricts you from performing in a truly independent manner. It’s no big shock then we see an even *bigger* earnings gap in wfg than at your “j.O.B.” last year (27 aug 2015) huffpo ran a piece decrying the “outrageous” 204-to-1 pay gap between the ceo and rank-and-file workers, with 4 ceos at the top of the list earning more than 1,000-to-1. We can put wfg right up there with the worst of them with its staggering *1,321*-to-1 gap. (3m ring earners compared to the 99.7% who earn, on average, $2,272/yr.) so much for wfg giving you the fair shot at the big bucks your j.O.B. Kept you from.
Lie/misrep #7: “don’t judge wfg by ‘a few bad apples.’”
Reality: wfg’s policies set the stage for widespread deceptive and unethical behavior that spreads way beyond “a few bad apples.” this mlm pushes its contractors to *restrict information* to its prospects, both to customers and to fellow associates. This guidance comes straight out of wfg’s system manual: “avoid the scenario of disaster. *if you start answering too many questions*, it takes the edge off the prospect’s curiosity.” this is, of course, absurd advice. Honest people will agree: you want to satisfy a prospect’s curiosity. That’s a good thing. How can you make rational decisions about products and work opportunities if you don’t get solid info on them?
My experience showed me how deeply wfgers deceive its clients and even themselves. My recruiter did everything he could--and succeeded--to keep me from reading the ffiul contract. He *owns* this policy and locked himself into really high fees and onerous surrender charges that extend out 15 years. Yet he couldn’t answer basic questions like “what are the guaranteed maximum fees?” he owned this policy and obviously had every right to let me read it. Yet he felt he needed to call his upline, who advised him against letting me read it, giving empty even laughable excuses such as “we just don’t do that” and “we’re not sure that’s legal.” i saw more of the same deflective and deceptive behavior in wfg workshops. My upline expected to promote the same in business presentation meetings Bpms).
Wfg’s compensation structure promotes unethical and even illegal behavior in other ways too. It’s true this mlm doesn’t directly pay you to recruit. Instead it simply awards points to you to recruit. You must recruit to move up the pyramid, especially since wfg’s main products, the ffiul and variable annuities, are usually not repeat sells. As my recruiter wrote to me: “you have to see yourself as a “builder” [“builder” is code for “recruiter”] rather than a seller. How much can you sell?!” to make real money and to advance you have to recruit enough that you will almost certainly run afoul of pyramid scheme laws.
Lie/misrep #8: "wfg is competitive because it offers a wide range of products from many different companies.”
Reality: wfgers love to tell us “we offer many different life insurance products from many companies.” in practice, wfg serves mainly to recruit and to distribute transamerica’s very pricey very risky fat-commission ffiul. Wfg wrote the compensation and promotion guidelines to push agents to sell that dangerous paycheck-sucking policy. The ffiul is especially risky in later life when your cost of insurance Coi) rates--aka mortality charges--soar through the roof. Check lie/misrep #5 above for more info on wfg’s c&p guidelines.
So what’s so bad about the ffiul anyway? That brings us to:
Lie/misrep #9: “ffiul is the best kind of life insurance policy. It’s a ‘permanent’ policy with a cash value and a floor so ‘you’ll never lose money.’”
Reality: for the damning numbers on this “assurance” abomination, please check out the 29 june 2016 review here titled “plan to live long? Will your ffiul--wfg’s “top” product--fail and leave you with nothing? Here's the math.” this explains why transamerica’s ffiul--at least as typically configured and sold through wfg--is a truly terrible deal from which you need to *run* not walk. The ffiul is a super-expensive policy that, if you live a reasonably long life, is virtually guaranteed to fail, leaving your heirs nothing after you spend decades pumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into it. This, because skyrocketing late-life cost of insurance Coi) charges *will* force you to give up the ffiul. It’s as simple and awful as that. The ffiul is not a “permanent” life policy as much as it is an auto-renewing 1-year term life policy. It’s “permanent” only until you can no longer afford to pay the astronomical late-life charges--which applies to just about everybody if you live long enough.
Lie/misrep #10: “forbes magazine covered us.”
Reality: wfg appeared in forbes only in *advertisements* so of course gives a rosy picture of the company. What else would you expect? It amazes me any wfger would embarrass themselves and wfg to tell such a weak and easily verifiable lie. Yet many do.
Five lessons from my wfg experience:
1) take nothing a wfger tells you on faith. Verify *everything* with full documentation and your own independent research.
2) read the fine print before you sign anything. Every word of it!
3) before you sign anything or give wfg a dime, make sure your agent gives you full documentation to take home and thoroughly read over. If you consider any policy, especially a policy with many moving parts like the ffiul, demand a full quote on your ffiul *including all the contract terms and conditions and policy data.*
4) give it to an independent qualified fee-only Not just “fee-based”) financial advisor who does not sell life insurance. If your agent won’t give you this full documentation, walk away.
5) your best bet: never start with this deeply dishonest organization!
Did an WFG agent sell you Transamerica’s FFIUL? Did this agent reassure you that “your cash value will grow to cover your all your premiums?” Did he even tell you “you’ll pay it off in ‘20’ or ‘25’ years?” How can you know for sure? I show you how here!
You’ll pay $100,000, $200,000 and more into your FFIUL over your life. You’ll want to verify your agent’s claims. You have a *right* to understand the numbers in your policy.
The great news: You *can* understand the numbers. The FFIUL math is much easier than you think.
But first, here’s a quick reality check to tell you why you really NEED understand the FFIUL numbers:
If you already bought the FFIUL, go to the Cost of Insurance (COI) on page ~25 of the FFIUL policy. Don’t let the agent tell you “don’t worry, you don’t have to pay those COI charges.
Please remember folks: This policy is a CONTRACT between you and Transamerica. Please know those COI numbers shown in your contract are the ones YOU AGREE TO PAY when you sign on the dotted line. You are *legally bound* to pay COI charges as high as those listed in the chart in your contract. If you haven’t yet bought the policy, ask your WFG to print out a copy of the policy *you will sign* and use the numbers from that COI chart.
Above all gentlepeople, please do NOT let the agent give you data based ONLY on his illustration software. You MUST make sure use the numbers you find printed on your contract and ONLY those numbers. Those are the ONLY valid numbers that apply to you!
One more note. Going forward in this review, I’ll use ACTUAL data from a copy of a *real* FFIUL policy that a FFIUL policyholder who kindly lent to me and who bought this policy in early 2016.
OK, now that we’re clear on all that, let’s proceed with the reality check :-)
Use a calculator--most phones have this--to add up all the COI multipliers on or near page 25. Let’s say you are a 35yo non-smoker male buying a $500k FFIUL. For you, those multipliers are, or close to, $0.09333 for age 35, $0.0975 for age 36, etc. All they way up to $9.98583 for age 85. Add up those multipliers you find on your COI chart. E.g. from age 35 to 85, these add up to $102.38.
Then multiply that sum by 6,000 (500 x 12). It’s 6,000 because the listed COI factors are for each $1,000 of Death Benefit and for each month of the year. Thus “500” for your $500,000 policy and “12” because 12 months in the year.
Your final result: $102.38 x 6,000 = **$614,289** Guess what?--That’s more than your Death Bennie!" And that’s just your COI charges. Add in the other monthly fees for that same 50-year stretch. Your total comes to well over *$700,000.*
But wait, it gets worse. MUCH worse. Take it forward just another five years higher, to age 90. That spikes your total policy costs costs to over **1.2 million dollars.** More than twice your Death Bennie.
This stark reality check should make you ask: Does the FFIUL EVEN MAKE SENSE? Especially if you come from a family of long-living people.
Folks, WFG agents have at least two incentives to sell FFIULs. First they earn fat commissions on them--$3,000, $5,000, and more. Second, WFG’s compensation plan favors selling Transamerica products. But is the FFIUL a good deal for you as it is for them? More to the point, will you be able to afford to pay the premiums until you die? Or will the rapidly accelerating late-life Cost of Insurance (COI) charges exhaust your policy’s cash value and force you to drop this FFIUL when you’re in your 70s or 80s? Causing you to LOSE all the money you faithfully fed into it? Leaving your heirs with NOTHING?
At the very least, please demand your WFG agent show you the actual math--again using a CALCULATOR, NOT his illustration software--to *prove* to you that your cash will cover your all your premiums.
But before you ask him for CALCULATOR-derived math, please get ready and do your OWN math first. This way, you can double-check your agent's figures. Here I show you how to do this math. BY LAW, your FFIUL policy and its issuers MUST supply you with all the DATA you need to let you calculate and understand all the math in your own FFIUL.
You can even calculate how old you’ll be when skyrocketing late-life Cost of Insurance (COI) charges will exhaust your policy’s cash value. This is very important because, as shown in the reality check above, once you reach your 70s and 80s, your COI charges will be prohibitively high, quite possibly forcing you to LOSE your policy. For example a healthy non-smoking man at age 75 will pay **over $21,000** that year just in COI charges. You can experiment with different premium levels to learn in advance how long you can expect your policy to last.
So grab your calculator and let’s go! If you know how to use a spreadsheet, so much the better--you’ll make short work of this task and put a very fine point on the math. You can use Google Sheets for free to make your spreadsheet. However you crunch the numbers, you’ll *know* the real score with your FFIUL.
I first show you how to do the math. Then I give you an example.
It may look complex but your FFIUL boils down to seven financial elements--two credit inputs and five expenses. You can deal with them all with basic math. Your FFIUL’s two credits are the monthly premium you pay and the interest that Transamerica credits to your Index Account once per year. Your FFIUL pays five monthly expenses. These expenses are the COI charge, Premium Expense Charge, Policy Fee, Policy Monthly Expense Charge (aka Face Value/Death Benefit Charge), and Index Account Charge. The two biggies here are your Premiums and the COI charges. Where you’re younger, your net cash inflow exceeds total expenses and your Cash Value grows. As you get older, your COIs start to catapult higher, causing your Cash Value growth to peak out and then to start to fall, ever faster, often plunging to zero as you hit your late 70s/early 80s, forcing you to pay huge monthly premiums or LOSE your policy.
In Dec 2017, Christopher Lee (Agent # 42IUX) hired me to be his Base Shop Coordinator, I worked 3 weeks in December. He was to pay me on December 22 for 2 weeks of work and then every 2 weeks thereafter. He called me on December 22 to tell me all of his teams business was rejected due to a change that his entire team was unaware of and so he was not getting paid until after the 1st. He lead me to believe he was going to pay me $1,000 per week and told me on December 22 that he could only pay me $500 for those 3 weeks I worked. After a lengthy conversation ad me telling Chris I could not work the hours he was needing for only $500 per week, we settled on $1,000 after the first of the year.
We kept in contact as he was working on a lead program that was “Going to make him millions this year” (His words) and there would be no problem paying me at that point. The first of February we spoke again about me terms of working as his BSC and I asked him “How confident are you that you will be able to pay me weekly?” His exact words “100% sure, with this new program my entire team will be making money.” So, I started working on this project for him (literally working from 7 am – 12/1 am). February 16th, he was suppose to pay me $2,000, but he sent me a text saying he opened a new bank account and his money was on hold (I believed this as I know this happens when you open a new
account and put a check in for a lot of money). I was told the first hold would be released on February 26th and the rest on March 5th and from that point on I would be paid consistently. On February 27th he sent a text saying that Tayo cancelled a policy and he was not getting paid (not sure what that had to do with the money he had in the bank and promised to pay me from). Apparently, he lied about having all of that money in the bank pending release. Long story short, it is April 25th and I still have not been paid by Christopher Lee. One might ask “Why did you work with him so long?” My husband was an agent with WFG at the time and I was referred to him by a guy we worked with in our
previous business, so I trusted him that the money was there and it was just waiting to be released. Every time I ask about my money, Chris sends me several pages of text messages about how the money will come with the leads being worked and it just takes time and he just doesn’t understand how I could quit on him and not fight through the storm. Well, I told him upfront that since my husband was just getting started in the business and not making money yet, that I needed a job that could pay me weekly (I did not agree to work based on when he would receive HIS commission and I was VERY upfront before taking on this project). He agreed to pay me weekly…not based on when HE got paid, but
weekly. I spoke to his upline, Hanna Horenstein, who assured me I would get paid (this was back in March), to this day, April 30, I have written his upline Hanna Horenstein again as well as WFG Corporate office and have not so much as received a courtesy response back. This tells me they don't care how their Agents treat their employees. These are the various responses and lies (over the course of 45days) I get when I ask when he's going to pay me: I'm sorry for, yet, another misunderstanding apparently: I let you just spend last week preparing to make money. The money will come from the lead program and we haven't even started yet. Just try to make sure we're up to speed from
day one. So, I said two weeks, meaning, two weeks from the day you start, which was yesterday. I thought I was clear from the beginning that you were being paid from the lead program. We're getting the leads tomorrow. I'm not sure what you mean by it not looking promising. This is what we are preparing for now. It's a little short of a notice to let me know the day before you're pulling out. Just like you said you had planned to work, if I didn't have you in place, I had planned to look for a full time Base Shop Coordinator to have in place for the beginning of the lead program. I didn't have you to start last week so that you and Chip could work to get through the training, so he could make money from the
leads and you from this portion from day one of the lead program. I don't have time to replace you by tomorrow. That placed all of us in a tough position. I have agents in 13 states, so we're getting leads from 13 states. No can't manage that without a BSC. That's like quitting the day before the grand opening. That's going to affect everyone and it's an almost impossible position to place me in. So, if you misunderstood and expected to get paid this Friday, by starting yesterday, that means you get paid next Friday. I don't know your situation, but seeing the program starts this week, will the difference of one week alter things by that much? Did I not say when the lead program began, that's what would find
the position? We're literally getting the leads tomorrow, so I'm not sure what your uncertainty is based on. When you asked me last week what day you were getting started, I thought you understood then, you hadn't been working yet, because you were completing the Advisorist training. That's all coming from the same place. We haven't made money yet. That's why I went with Vanillasoft, because it gave me a 30 free trial. I was ensuring we would be ready from day one without incurring expense. Once we start making money from this program it won't ever stop again. This is what Joe and I were communicating on the call last night. It's going to get a little out of hand. We're working now to organize to
manage the chaos! I haven't made money in 2018 in preparation for this moment when we will make up for anything we lost leading up to it. We will make 3-4x's what we made in 2017, so I've just been working to get us ready to fully capitalize on everything from the start. That way we won't lose out in revenues we would have made if we had been more organized. Once we begin, NO ONE will have any cash flow gaps. Like...ever! Btw, the funds will be released on the 26 and March 5, so I will send you the other $1000 on Monday and then $2000 on the 5th. From that point forward, it will be consistent. Then, then the first significantly large cycle we have, I will include the remaining $1500 I owe you along
with your regular pay. Then, we'll be caught up. I'm sure that will happen in March. Sorry for the inconvenience. I was not aware that would happen, but I never deposited that much at once before to a new account. They said they won't hold it like this next time. Not sure. But still meeting with my friends over the next couple of days to secure the other funds. I will keep you posted. I'm going to ensure we're funded! Then, the grow we produce in the next couple of weeks will create a cushion so a budget this tight will be a thing of the past. Really tired, but I am working on interviewing these teams before I go to bed. I am going to get this stabilized. You're the overall coordinator for the overall Baseshop and it's
my responsibility. Ryan has a base shop coordinator, too. Things just didn't time out, mainly, due to out not getting the leads that were originally scheduled for MID-DECEMBER, so there's that. Instead they came TWO MONTHS after we expected them and I'm not sure why, but that threw everything off. So, everything I have done has been in response to that not coming when it was scheduled to come, but still working like it was coming at each deadline that was missed for two months. Well, that created a bind for me, because I had to prepare as though we had income, yet without income. So, I have been finding things out of my own pocket so far. ALL of it. But, hopefully, you see how much we're going to all
make literally within a matter of a few weeks. Probably as soon as the week after next, when Ryan gets through a lot of appointments and all of the agents begin taking their own appointments. As I told you before, soon we will see $20K months and by the end of the year, we will all be at $50-$100K months! So, what we are really looking at is just carrying this for a couple of weeks. I sent an email this morning to one of the people on my list for $20K. I am confident I will have what I need in a few days. I apologize that this is affecting you. I solved the problem last week and we should have had $7500 this week outright. But Tyo caused that to get eaten. When she replaces the money in her policy in a day or
two, we get that back, as well. Sorry for the delay and thanks for your patience and work. We're all going to harvest from all the hard work we've planted soon! I understand you frustration. I am, too. You will be caught up by Monday if we just keep working like it's coming. That will be why it comes next week and then comes every week. I know it doesn't help, but up to now, I haven't gotten paid either. But, I am encouraged, because have experienced how fast it comes once we set regular solid appointments. Think about the fact that for every three appointments that show for FNA's, etc., one will pay. When every agent has 3 appointments a week and then 3 a day, it's going to be crazy. Until then, I will
cover you. Again, I had it covered this week, but one of my agents did something stupid that screwed up all of us, just because she didn't bother t communicate with HER agent, even though she herself is an experienced agent. That was just dumb! That's why you didn't get paid yesterday. I had $4500 becoming available yesterday, then another $3000 tomorrow that she wiped out! SMH Believe me, I am frustrated about that as much or more than you. Yet, I am still working it out to keep everything going. That's what entrepreneurs do. Problems arise and I solve them. I am solving this one now. I'll get you caught up. Let's just keep working like it's coming and it will happen. That's how I made
$300K last year and will make over $1M this year. So, will you two! It's just taken time to get to this point. Now, that everything is in place, it won't take long. You will see next week when Ryan's calendar opens up for multiple appointments a day. The following week is when it all starts to pick up. By the next week, it will be great! In a month, it will be crazy! FYI, on the phone with Tyo and her attorney renegotiated and she got a settlement of $20K instead of $12K. This is all working out!! Crystal that major chargeback last week through off my ENTIRE budget, which was very tight before that. I told you I had some other things in the works and that one of my guys would come through. Well, he
did. It just so happens that he sold an investment property that closes today. He is loaning me money for my business, not as much as I asked, but enough to get you the $3K told you I was aiming for. I am waiting to hear back from him this morning about how quickly the money will transfer, but this is guaranteed. As soon as it closes, records and the money is wired to him, he's sending it to me and I will send to you. I will keep you updated. I am SO VERY sorry to have contributed to this situation, Crystal, but I appreciate your being flexible and resourceful , so we can keep things rolling! You'll have your salary as soon as that process is completed. As long as we maintain the progress we're making, soon the
business will produce at a level to more than accommodate all of our needs! Heading into meetings soon. Thanks for your patience and, again, I will keep you posted! I am the one who should apologize. Things happened beyond my control, but that doesn't matter, because you're depending on your check being consistent to handle your business and it's my job to ensure it is. I understand you had to do what you had to do. All will be consistent very soon. You're seeing the progress and your a driving force why we're making such progress, so again, I appreciate your resilience and loyalty to the team to continue to build together a legacy for all of our families! Yes, there was a slight delay from Monday, but
that's handled now and he's just waiting on the transfer. Should happen any day now. I'm sorry for the delay. I need it to come in, too, for multiple business related deadlines. I will update ASAP. It was supposed to close Monday, but the lender had not sent the payoff from his requesting it three weeks ago! Murphy's Law, I guess. Coming soon though. Today is the last day for the buyer to deposit the funds so I hope to get news today. I will let you know as soon as I know. I wish I had heard something already, but I am eagerly expecting good news! He knows how important this is and the urgency, so as soon as it breaks he'll let me know and I will relay the good news! I'm trying to work out the transfer.
His wife had a death in the family, so I am trying to be respectful. We are workin through it now before the banks close. Contact you later this evening. Trying to make sure they don't hold the funds again He didn't make the deposit, because he was with Family until after the banks closed. Hopefully, today. It's delicate with the death of a near relative. He knows we need it, so I'm sure it will be today. That's why I had to postpone the meeting, because Joe and Ryan weren't available and I was trying to ensure the funds got transferred in a way they would be immediately available. We just ran out of time. Still tied waiting to hear from him. Again, they had a death and his family is experiencing some other
personal challenges this week, but not financial. We are all waiting on this transfer, but I encourage continued patience. We'll get it in soon and we're already working on the next funding to ensure we have no further lapses. I know it's tough, but we have to be patient. Everyone and every family experiences grief differently. I must give him a little more time. The good news is once it comes, we will be good from then going forward! Not sure why "tied" is in there. Still waiting... Did you mean to leave the Facebook group today? Yes, I have to find a job that will pay me. I'm not feeling too confident I'm ever getting paid. Too many excuses and nothing happening. I can't keep waiting and hoping. This has been too
stressful. I am sorry that's the case, but do you not think we are all stressed. Everyone is being affected and everyone is hanging in there. I'm sure you see all the messages from our team consisting of contractors from various countries. If you can hang in there, it won't be long. I am doing my best to be considerate of everyone. I can only do what I can however. I'm not sure what you're seeing, what gives you the impression you won't get paid along with everyone else or what what you're classifying as "excuses", but we are all waiting on he same thing. I don't think we can call someone's near relative passing away as an excuse. If not for that, we would have had the money on Monday when her got it. He
had family obligations that are a higher priority than our immediate need. Once he sends it however, we'll be back in business. But, ultimately you have to do what you think is best. All I can do is update you as to what's going on. But, I'm not sure what getting paid has to do with staying in or leaving the group. That just causes a scene and hurts what we're working hard to accomplish overall...including you an Chip's business. I'm sorry that you have been negatively impacted, but I help you know we all have been equally impacted negatively. We will correct this and move on to better days, because we have a good system and tons of opportunity. I hope you can see beyond the immediate to long term
victory. That's what's keeping us grounded through this temporary discomfort so we can win terminally. Not sure how you can judge a $500 billion dollar company based on a temporary cashflow lapse in my business. That would be shortsighted. I just attended an event this weekend and this is our larger team. The company is successful. That's what I don't waiver in my commitment. I have made hundreds of thousands in the past and my mentors have made millions, tens of millions and hundreds of millions. Chip is going to need your support. Don't fail to see the forest for the trees. Thad fine if you don't want to work for me. That's up to you. But, don't shoot your self in the foot. Jaime built that team
over 18 years. That was without social media and all the things we are building. We will build a team that size in a fraction of the time. Keep your eyes on long term goals and not temporary discomfort. That's a good general principle to live by. Chip is going be PHENOMENAL at this business very soon. You can help or hurt that. It's all up to you. Btw, I'm going to pay you whether you stay or go. I keep my word, even if for some reason it's delayed beyond my control. I encourage you to take some time to re-evaluate and let's talk again. I think you may be conflating unrelated issues and that appears to be producing inaccurate conclusions about the overall company, as well as, its ability to produce what you
want both short term and long term. It really doesn't take that long to generate income in the business once we get things going in the next 24 hours. You will see this whether you stay or go, by I am doing best advise you in advance of that so you won't feel short-changed, if you leave, when things literally EXPLODE over the next 60 days! I am engaging you, because I want to help you accomplish your goal, so I don't want YOU to miss out over a temporary situation, especially, because I failed to explain to you how things will begin to develop in a short amount of time. We will be 1000 strong by convention in August She hasn't gotten her settlement yet, so she hasn't even replaced her premium yet. Joe's
still in the hole Hers is an unusually big case That one hurt We're holding this machine to pay us ALL BIG TIME! When we start getting paid soon, we'll ALL get paid! It's going soon! I am an independent Contractor. I own my own business. You're communicating my private business is a violation of confidentiality, trust and proprietary secrets. The business you have with me is with me only. I am asking you and Chip to stop calling Hanna about business you have with me. You are affecting my business adversely. I will pay you what I owe you, but I have not had it until, literally, a couple of hours ago. I will settle things with you, but your speeding misinformation about me is not helping your case. I don't work for
Hanna. Your business is with me. Your supposition is correct. I don’t, yet, have the resources. I will contact you once I can credibly set a payment date. As you know, I had some major setbacks that impacted my ability to generate income just when had optimized a working system, some completely unrelated to you, but others of which you are aware, including losing my assistant without notice in the middle of a revenue producing project when I didn’t have a replacement. Otherwise, I most likely would have been able to generate the income to pay you and many others by now. As it stands, we are working on it. The meeting for funding that I shared with you in confidence was pushed back.
But I won’t say when, because every time I share information about my personal business matters with you, you call up someone completely unresponsible for such matters and I get a meeting discussing such matters with - Hanna, home office, etc. - to no avail, aside from putting my personal business in the streets, since no one aside from me has jurisdiction in this matter. So, again, I will contact you once I can a payment date that I can keep. Working with me through the problems would have been much more profitable. You don’t seem to understand that I am an independent contractor and WFG is not responsible for any personal debt or business arrangement. But, you’ll soon discover that. I’ve
already spoken with them about this. So, you do what you feel you have to. You’ll be in for a big surprise, however and you definitely won’t get what you want. I only owed you 5,500. If you want to fight over that instead of waiting until I can send it, you do what you feel you have to. Whatever that is will disappoint you drastically, however. You’ll see. You’ve made this something it never had to be. Your loss. I used to be a licensed mediator for the state of CA court system. I mediated cases like this all the time. The courts would rather not deal with stuff like this. So, I clearly know my options. I told you I don’t have anything to give you, it you would rather keep trying to shame me. This is the
person who uses the term Christian. Read Matthew 18 or Romans 6 lately? I haven’t been able to pay some others and they haven’t quit. That was your choice. That’s not hateful. That’s facts You betrayed my confidence What’s the price for that? Apparently, $5500 I am broke from helping ungrateful people like you, Crystal. And it is coming back. Not worried about that at all. You’re pretty juvenile, like junior high juvenile. I’ll pay you, but you’ll get your reward elsewhere. I didn't lie to you. We just struggled to get things going and I'm sorry you interpreted it otherwise aside from our struggling through some unexpected challenges to get things off the ground. The last time I paid you, I literally
paid you my last and my family did without after I paid bills to keep things going, because I know how close we are. I'm sorry I couldn't pay you time and I'm sorry you think I wasn't telling you the truth: I was 100% transparent with you both. I am independent contractor and this doesn't fall under any company guidelines and they have no authority to force me to do anything. Because you thought I was "holding out" on you, you went to my upland and sought to defame and embarrass me. On top of that, you walked away and left me scrambling, in fact, we're still attempting to recover from that and both of you told me not to contact you any more. We were and still are having a hard time putting this business
together, but instead of you guys hanging in there with us to build something that will take care of us, our children and our children's children, you walked away and left me hanging even though I was keeping you informed literally every day. I don't appreciate that. Now, I am sorry things didn't materialize and I couldn't pay you on time. That was never the plan. But, nothing in my business was Hanna's business! You don't know our relationship or anything about anything, but you didn't consider how you might affect any of my business dealings as long as you got what you wanted! So, no, I didn't have all your money and I didn't rush once I got it, but choose rather to prioritize hose who were loyal to me,
since you went behind my back and didn't give me any type of notice, like even a day or at least showed someone, anyway what you were doing or what your processes were. You punished everyone in your dissatisfaction with me. I don't appreciate it at all. So, I will pay you out of the next round of funding we're working on procuring now. I barley had enough to handle everything with that last amount to keep highs afloat. So, you can try to make me look bad or whatever else you feel you need to do. It won't make me come up with the money any faster than I am now. I explained to you I haven't gotten paid since May, so I didn't have it. But, I anticipated making enough to handle the growth
sooner. It didn't happen that way. The next round, we are asking for $50K. When I get $50K, as opposed to $5K, then I will send you your $6K. Until then, I'll be busy working to get everyone paid in my team. That's what I'm all about. The last time I sent you money, Crystal, I sent you literally the LAST of my money to pay you first. It doesn't even matter that I'm telling you that, because you won't believe it and tell other people who have nothing to do with this that I am a "liar" and "scam artist". That's your prerogative. God knows the truth. Once we get going, out company will clear over $1M 12 months from the date we get going at full capacity. When we do, I will reward those who stuck around through
the tough times, foggy along side each other, gritted it out and built an incredible company that we can be proud of and that takes care of all our families and many others. By then, I'll long ago have sent your $6K and this conversation and any discomfort any of us felt will be a distant memory. Thank you both for the contributions you made while we were putting this together. You really helped all of us in those initial weeks. If you had just taken me at my word and continued to work with me like the team of contractors I still have in place who live half way around the world, but who hind in there with me, we could have built together. If you had been willing to function as partners, I would have made
you partners. But, I guess, maybe, you don't believe things will work out as I have envisioned. Instead, you choose to throw me under the bus like disgruntled employees. Time will tell. I'll pay you your money as soon as I have it. I'll let you know coming out of this meeting with Ryan, the investor and me next week. We'll do our best to help you meet the deadline for your move to Louisiana, even though you couldn't care less about our team deadlines. I pray all goes as you have envisioned, as well. No one was getting paid, Crystal and I told you why. We were all hurting You walked away, left me hanging and attempted to make me look bad. Look. I'm done. All I ever do is busy my butt for everyone. I'll sorry
you didn't get paid. I don't appreciate how you handled it. You don't know me. Last year, I spent about $50-60K out of my pocket for my team. If I had it now, I would have with no problem. I don't have it. When I do, you will get it. My concern is everyone's family on my team. That's what I'm building for. To take care of everyone. Not just my family. If I were just out for me, I would have taken Jeremiah's training and done what was only good for me. But, that's not who I am. That's why I still have a team. I have gone to batt for them in the past and they are loyal and they trust me. If you
stick around you would see the same. In fact, one of the reasons I do have much liquid now if because I spent it on them, sometimes helping them out of financial jams. That's who I am. Not someone who abuses people. I help them. Well, now, I need a help and consideration. Those who help me, help them will receive the reward of what I'm doing for them. Others will get disgruntled, demand what belongs to them and walk away. I can only be where I am. When I get your money, I'll send it.
World Financial Group- Shirlene Reeves WFG Be cautious of the MLM company... these people are completely uneducated in the field of financial wealth and management... Ms. Reeves placed me in an "insurance policy” that is in the worst annuity possible... the guarantee was 6% over a ten year period as promised by Reeves and when Ing was later bought by Voya, my terms changed. Fees are actually higher and I will end up losing money when the policy matures! SCAM, world financial group and Shirlene Reeves beware!
I am here to file a personal and company complaint against a WFG Agent Christopher Cobb #0H7008. He is unprofessional and a liar. His entire speech is a lie and he scams people into policies and joining his team under false pretences. However the main reason why I am contacting you today is because Chris Cobb is a terrible person. An absolute fraud and he is threatening my livelihood. He needs to be fired and never allowed to work in this industry again. How can anyone trust him with their life savings or any money at all. He is crossing the lines of Defamation of Character and I will file a lawsuit against him and whoever he works for if he refuses to stop. If someone in corporate can contact me please, I would really appreciate it. I am at my wits end with this man and the people I have referred to him are willing to cancel their policy or transfer to another company.
I would like someone from this company to answer a huge question that I think are extremely valuable to anyone seriously considering being apart of this type of business (including myself). Now that being said, if no one does answer the questions its pretty obvious that this is fishy and a scam.
Full explaination below but here is the question:
WHERE DOES THE MONEY TO PAY EVERYONE COME FROM?
I personally have been approched by a friend about this business to sell life insurance and use it as an investment for long term. Of course it sounds great and perfect and it seems as if the product is legit.
Now Im NOT going to automatically call it a MLM scheme because a MLM scheme is signing up a mass amount of people under you in which the upfront cost partially goes to you and the people above in the hope that they get people below them.
For that to be entirely true, I would have to prove that the $100 "background check" is PARTIALLY going to the people above. In which they even make money if you dont do anything but sign up. Which I DONT really think is the case here.
It seems like there is a large amount of people in this company and the people that put in the Hard work actually make a decent amount of money. I was told that someone putting in the hard work will be earning at least +$50K yearly. Now someone way up the chain can make as much as +$500k a year.
I was told that the big conventions range about 20k people so I think can safely assume that throughout this company there is at least 100K people that put in $100 to just get started (which includes the people that dont do anything and fall off entirely).
I think I can safely assume that at least %5 are hard working.
So undershooting everything by large amount, 5k people x $50k is $250million yearly.
Now let me assume that all those people actually pay ~$100 a month because they have the life insurance that they are trying to sell.
100k people x $100 a month x 12 months = $120million yearly
why not add $100 "background check" to everyone adds another $10million.
to even break even 100K more people would have to just get the insurance.
WHERE DOES THE MONEY TO PAY EVERYONE COME FROM?
All this money should be going to these people's insurance and I do understand how the insurance business works- get the money now invest it and pay these people later when they need it or when they die etc. BUT no smart business would use this model because its a losing money model. I dont want to make assumptions about the ethics of this company. But can someone at least make sense of this for me.
Honestly, if I feel that I am given a legit answer. I will join and start making money, but if I join this I dont want it to fall apart after I have invested my time and my family and friends time/money.
I was presented with an annuity investment were guarantees were promised and did not disclose the higher fees from what I was paying with Vanguard and my initials were foreged in taking off the guarantees on the investment without me knowing utnil I started to call call the company directly myself. I am locked in for 7 years without being able to move my funds without paying enormous fees if I move them.
World Financial Group, Inc. Reviews
Gentlefolk, here are the lies and misrepresentations that wfgers so often tell you and themselves. Please scroll down to read details on each lie/misrep and the hard reality. Lie/misrep #1: "wfg works for many successful people. My upline’s a doctor/engineer/[enter respected profession here], who made [enter fabulous sum here] last month!”
Lie/misrep #2: "wfg is backed by aegon group, a fortune 500 company."
Lie/misrep #3: "we focus on sales, not recruiting. We are not a ‘pyramid scheme’. "
Lie/misrep #4: "if wfg’s such as scam, why hasn’t it been shut down?"
Lie/misrep #5: “you can make ‘ridiculous’ money with wfg. You’re not a ‘wage slave.’”
Lie/misrep #6: “it’s not a j.O.B. You own your own biz.”
Lie/misrep #7: “don’t judge us on ‘a few bad apples. Lie/misrep #8: "wfg is competitive because it offers a wide range of products from many different companies.”
Lie/misrep #9: “ffiul is the best kind of life insurance policy. It’s a ‘permanent’ policy with a cash value and a floor so ‘you’ll never lose money.’
Lie/misrep #10: “forbes covered us.’”
Wfg is a multi-level marketing Mlm) financial services company. The program wfg agents too often follow is based on lies. For the vast majority of its clients and agents, the wfg experience is--or will become--everything from a mild brief let-down to a mind-bending nightmare that wrecks everything they have: family, friendships, wealth.
The system creators wove the web of deception so well, the agent-victim doesn’t know he’s trapped in it until it’s too late. Not until he’s invested too much time, money, and emotions into this abusive and deeply dishonest program. By which time it’s too late--he’s made himself part of the big lie. Acting like a highly animated zombie, he’s in deep denial and spreads the gross dishonesty.
*harming* people and families--not helping them--is part of wfg’s dna. At least as too often executed by its irregular army of high-fantasy low-fact agents.
How can this be? Why does wfg even exist?
As deep throat told us: “follow the money.” wfg makes huge coin for a privileged few. Your wfg nightmare is a *dream* for this mlm’s corporate overlords and relative handful of agents. These privileged few are:
1) wfg corporate;
2) participating carriers, transamerica most of all, and;
3) the top 0.5% of agents who’ve effectively locked up the pyramid peak.
Many--maybe most--of these top 0.5% agents got in on the ground floor of this multi-level marketing Mlm) organization in the 1990s when it was called world marketing alliance Wma). For reasons i give below, these top agents can effectively pull up the ladder out of reach of newer associates. They can drop down the ladder every so often to let climb up a few folks. Just often enough to continue to propagate the sham of “opportunity for all” if only “you work hard enough.”
Transamerica and wfg corporate cash in hugely from wfg’s high-profit ultra-low overhead model. Uplines press their agents to sell very spendy fat-commission products like transamerica’s financial foundation indexed universal life Ffiul) policy. Pricey products that most buyers will give up so transamerica avoids to pay even a dime in benefits. As far as recruits, the more the merrier! wfg corporate “ka-chings” $100 per head. A huge amount of this fee is profit. Corporate spends almost nothing on overhead, because agents do nearly all the work, which includes all the recruiting.
Transamerica’s parent holding company, dutch giant aegon n.V. Lends a hand here. It greases congress pols’ palms to help keep legal such financial devices like the ffiul insurance policy, an elaborate long-game fraud. Search on “open secrets insurance companies” and you’ll see aegon ranks well up the list of donations, giving almost a million dollars of campaign contributions to these fed elected officials so far this year. That’s a small price for aegon to pay to help keep legal decades-long confidence games like the ffiul.
To keep feeding the voracious wfg dragon with fresh green, uplines must push their agents to aggressively recruit, and sell harmful products to, everyone possible, even people near and dear to them. As such, wfgers are too often deeply deflective, deceptive, dishonest, and damaging. The dishonesty flows all the way down from the top, from the corporate level, which instructs its agents to hide important information.
Let’s look under wfg’s hood. Let’s take apart some of the more common lies and misrepresentations that wfgers tell us and themselves. Let’s discuss how you can protect yourself from this profoundly unhealthy parasitic organization. A company that, like a pathogenic virus, shows us how to feed the selfish devils of our natures and suppress our better angels, and to teach us how to replicate the same big lie into other people. A company that infects and harms many thousands of victims for the crass enrichment of a select soulless few.
10 lies and misreps wfgers tell you and themselves--and the hard realities:
Lie/misrep #1: "wfg works for many successful people. My upline’s a cpa/engineer/[enter respected profession here], who made [enter fabulous income here] last month!”
Reality: it’s very common for mlm agents to wildly exaggerate their earnings and other professions, even outright lie about them. They justify their deception by telling themselves that the end justifies the means. To “fake it till they make it.”
It’s common for agents to show spreadsheets and powerpoint slides showing their earnings. Ask to see their actual paychecks and bank statements. Alas, some uplines have even doctored those sources so even these “direct” docs fail to offer ironclad guarantees the upline made what he or she claims. Look for other telltale signs. How well does the upline dress? Does she wear real or costume jewelry? Does that “$250k/year” upline drive a $10k car? It’s possible the costume jewelry and budget car is her choice. But that’s highly unlikely. It’s vitally important to project a successful image to succeed in sales. So if the upline really does earn well, she’ll likely be driving a lexus, benz, or other status-mobile as a necessary cost of doing biz. Sometimes the upline will claim a respectable title in a high-earning career, e.G. A doctor, engineer, or cpa. Comments you read here in ssed consumer, reddit, and elsewhere, discuss accounts of people who claim to come from a given profession, but who fail to show up in internet searches. Or they show up, but they only attended college or university for the given profession but never worked in that profession. Did they even graduate in their stated profession? Bottom line: take nothing these people tell you on faith. Verify all you can.
Lie/misrep #2: "wfg is backed by aegon group, a fortune 500 company."
Reality: official public information on this relationship is sorely lacking, almost non-existent. You get conflicting information on it from various corporate employees. Bottom line: we simply don’t know for sure wfg’s current status vis-a-vis aegon. What’s clear is that wfg largely disappeared from aegon’s official financial reports in 2007. If aegon does indeed own wfg, it isolated itself from wfg’s bad behavior. Indeed by definition, wfg corporate largely isolated itself from the rampant dodgy dealings and outright fraud among its 53,000+ agents and near-198,000 new recruits Wfg 2015 figures). Because they are independent contractors, these agents must assume the legal burden for their own actions and conduct. Check out the 28 march 2016 review at p*ssed consumer titled “aegon/transamerica doesn't own wfg after all?!” to read more on why wfger’s proud claims that “aegon backs wfg” are meaningless at best, and quite possibly wrong. When--folks not “if” but “when”--wfg runs into financial, regulatory, and legal troubles, you can’t assume aegon will step in and bail out this deeply troubled little mlm.
Lie/misrep #3: "we focus on sales, not recruiting. We are not a ‘pyramid scheme’."
Reality: wfg corporate doesn’t tell agents to recruit more than sell. But the low-repeat sales of high-commission life insurance and retirement products like the ffiul and variable annuities pretty much force you to recruit way more than you sell. Thus you, the wfg agent, will personally violate pyramid scheme laws.
The us government's federal trade commission Ftc) makes clear what’s a pyramid scheme:
"pyramid schemes ... Promise consumers or investors large profits based primarily on recruiting others to join their program... We bring cases against pyramid schemes under the ftc act."
You can read the full text at www dot ftc dot gov/public-statements/1998/05/pyramid-schemes
Wfg corporate’s guideline of “3 sales and 3 recruits in 30 days” (“3/3/30”) keeps the official guideline oh-so-barely within legal limits. But the open secret among agents is that, given the low-repeat sales of life insurance and financial retirement products like annuities, agents must recruit or die. Life insurance is not a low-cost consumable like soaps or face creams. As my recruiter wrote to me: “how much can you sell?!” as such, it’s only a matter of time wfg’s contractors will firmly cross that sell/recruit borderline--and document their overwhelming recruitment focus in emails and web posts--to firmly establish a pyramid scheme pattern. Then the fed and state regulators can “whooosh” in. If you want to read more on this, check out this 16 may 2016 review at p*ssed consumer: “will wfg die? Dissect this evidence. Do your homework. Decide for yourself.”
Lie/misrep #4: "if wfg’s such a scam, why hasn’t it been shut down?"
Reality: again, it’s only a matter of time before we see more formal action against wfg and/or some of its agents, which could result in prosecutions and shutdown. Sooner or later, the regulators and the courts will catch up to them once their collective malfeasance rises enough to grab the authorities’ attention. Starting in 2007, lawyers and regulators have had their hands full with biz titans like lehman bros, enron, and arthur andersen, all of which fell from grace due to massive fraud and systematic gross wrongdoing. Recently goldman sachs agreed to pay $5b to investors to whom gs admitted it deliberately sold shoddy investments to clients. Let’s not forget bad behavior from transamerica, the carrier that issues the financial foundation indexed universal life Ffiul) policy, wfg’s flagship insurance product. Google “feller vs transamerica” and you’ll read about a major class-action suit just launched against that insurer. Thousands of transamerica xul policyholders will have, or already had, to cough up massive premiums or lose their policies. Even if a company’s very big and been around a long time, it can still offer you a poor and even harmful deal and even act fraudulently.
Lie/misrep #5: “you can make ‘ridiculous’ money with wfg. You’re not a ‘wage slave.’”
Reality: yes, and you can become president of the united states, prime minister of canada, and be the first person to walk on mars. While anything’s *possible* the way the wfg pyramid is set up makes it virtually impossible for you to earn a living at this business. Even worse, it just about requires you to sell loads of inferior and even very harmful products, especially transamerica’s ffiul policy. You have to ask yourself: is the money worth deceiving and ripping off hundreds, even thousands, of people? Is the money worth the fact you knowingly deceive and rip off even *one* person? How much are you willing to violate your ethics and morals, to knowingly spread bad karma?
Let’s look at this in more detail. Search for “wfg’s compensation & promotion guidelines squarespace.” that 8-page pdf will pop up for you. Go to page 5. In the “compensation guidelines” chart, you see that wfg starts out its new associates at, in effect, a pathetically low 25% of the commission on your sales. Most independent marketing orgs Imos) pay their agents 70--80% of commission from their first day. That’s a greater percentage than what even wfg’s senior marketing directors make.
In that same chart, see where wfg awards more points for “wrl” products? “wrl” stands for western reserve life assurance co. Of ohio, which merged into--you guessed it!--transamerica. Wfg wants to project its independent “we offer many products from many carriers” image. The wrl label helps hide the fact that wfg heavily skews to transamerica and esp that carrier’s favored fat-commission product, the ffiul. Wfg is, above all, a recruiting machine and a sales machine for transamerica's ffiul.
Ok, let’s say you don’t want to flog “wrl” products like the ffiul? No problem right? You can just work harder to sell the other products, right? But what if your upline thinks you’re not being “coachable” enough? In those same wfg guidelines, on page 8, you find these:
Footnote 2: promotion requires approval of direct upline smd.
Footnote 3: promotion requires approval of direct smd and ceo md
Footnote 12: meeting the minimum requirements does not guarantee inclusion in the base shop pool.
This means *even if you meet the sales and recruiting goals to move up* your upline can block your progress. Wfg makes it clear that, regardless of its promises that you “own your own biz” and have “freedom of carrier/product choice,” you’re forced to play ball with your upline to move up to real money--which almost certainly means you have to recruit, recruit, recruit, and sell loads of the very expensive and very risky ffiul. It’s small wonder i’ve seen agents push the ffiul at pie-in-the-sky 8% average rates of return illustrations onto lots of people who can’t really afford it. In their later years as their premiums surge higher, these will force them to give up the ffiul and lose everything.
Lie/misrep #6: “it’s not a j.O.B. You own your own biz.”
Reality: wfg itself makes clear, in several places, that this favorite wfg selling point is a myth. You can find the hard truth spelled out in your associate membership agreement Ama) and in wfg's compensation and promotion guidelines. You most definitely *don’t* “own your own biz.” you are not master or mistress of your wfg destiny.
First, see here on page 8 of that ama:
“b. ...The associate acknowledges that wfg owns all rights in and to the following: ...Ii) the identities of and all lists of the members comprising wfg; and Iii) the identities of and all lists of the customers of wfg...Which constitute **property owned solely by wfg.** associate agrees that associate shall have no proprietary interest in, or ownership of, any customers, other associates of wfg including downline associates, or products and services. **wfg shall have exclusive proprietary interest in, or ownership, of all customers, and contractual relationships with other associates and the product providers**.”
You can read this for yourself. Search for the 22-page ama-us.Pdf. You’ll find it at mywfg dot com. Even some veteran wfgers are shocked to learn that, when they leave the mlm, they can’t take their book of business with them.
Second, see wfg’s compensation & promotion guidelines. These make clear that, even if you meet sales and recruiting goals, you get no guarantee you'll advance up the wfg pyramid. See lie/misrep #5 above for more info on that.
Sounds more like your j.O.B. All the time doesn't it? Except worse. All you are is a contractor who pays for everything that is usually paid for by traditional companies Training, books, travel etc) meanwhile wfg restricts you from performing in a truly independent manner. It’s no big shock then we see an even *bigger* earnings gap in wfg than at your “j.O.B.” last year (27 aug 2015) huffpo ran a piece decrying the “outrageous” 204-to-1 pay gap between the ceo and rank-and-file workers, with 4 ceos at the top of the list earning more than 1,000-to-1. We can put wfg right up there with the worst of them with its staggering *1,321*-to-1 gap. (3m ring earners compared to the 99.7% who earn, on average, $2,272/yr.) so much for wfg giving you the fair shot at the big bucks your j.O.B. Kept you from.
Lie/misrep #7: “don’t judge wfg by ‘a few bad apples.’”
Reality: wfg’s policies set the stage for widespread deceptive and unethical behavior that spreads way beyond “a few bad apples.” this mlm pushes its contractors to *restrict information* to its prospects, both to customers and to fellow associates. This guidance comes straight out of wfg’s system manual: “avoid the scenario of disaster. *if you start answering too many questions*, it takes the edge off the prospect’s curiosity.” this is, of course, absurd advice. Honest people will agree: you want to satisfy a prospect’s curiosity. That’s a good thing. How can you make rational decisions about products and work opportunities if you don’t get solid info on them?
My experience showed me how deeply wfgers deceive its clients and even themselves. My recruiter did everything he could--and succeeded--to keep me from reading the ffiul contract. He *owns* this policy and locked himself into really high fees and onerous surrender charges that extend out 15 years. Yet he couldn’t answer basic questions like “what are the guaranteed maximum fees?” he owned this policy and obviously had every right to let me read it. Yet he felt he needed to call his upline, who advised him against letting me read it, giving empty even laughable excuses such as “we just don’t do that” and “we’re not sure that’s legal.” i saw more of the same deflective and deceptive behavior in wfg workshops. My upline expected to promote the same in business presentation meetings Bpms).
Wfg’s compensation structure promotes unethical and even illegal behavior in other ways too. It’s true this mlm doesn’t directly pay you to recruit. Instead it simply awards points to you to recruit. You must recruit to move up the pyramid, especially since wfg’s main products, the ffiul and variable annuities, are usually not repeat sells. As my recruiter wrote to me: “you have to see yourself as a “builder” [“builder” is code for “recruiter”] rather than a seller. How much can you sell?!” to make real money and to advance you have to recruit enough that you will almost certainly run afoul of pyramid scheme laws.
Lie/misrep #8: "wfg is competitive because it offers a wide range of products from many different companies.”
Reality: wfgers love to tell us “we offer many different life insurance products from many companies.” in practice, wfg serves mainly to recruit and to distribute transamerica’s very pricey very risky fat-commission ffiul. Wfg wrote the compensation and promotion guidelines to push agents to sell that dangerous paycheck-sucking policy. The ffiul is especially risky in later life when your cost of insurance Coi) rates--aka mortality charges--soar through the roof. Check lie/misrep #5 above for more info on wfg’s c&p guidelines.
So what’s so bad about the ffiul anyway? That brings us to:
Lie/misrep #9: “ffiul is the best kind of life insurance policy. It’s a ‘permanent’ policy with a cash value and a floor so ‘you’ll never lose money.’”
Reality: for the damning numbers on this “assurance” abomination, please check out the 29 june 2016 review here titled “plan to live long? Will your ffiul--wfg’s “top” product--fail and leave you with nothing? Here's the math.” this explains why transamerica’s ffiul--at least as typically configured and sold through wfg--is a truly terrible deal from which you need to *run* not walk. The ffiul is a super-expensive policy that, if you live a reasonably long life, is virtually guaranteed to fail, leaving your heirs nothing after you spend decades pumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into it. This, because skyrocketing late-life cost of insurance Coi) charges *will* force you to give up the ffiul. It’s as simple and awful as that. The ffiul is not a “permanent” life policy as much as it is an auto-renewing 1-year term life policy. It’s “permanent” only until you can no longer afford to pay the astronomical late-life charges--which applies to just about everybody if you live long enough.
Lie/misrep #10: “forbes magazine covered us.”
Reality: wfg appeared in forbes only in *advertisements* so of course gives a rosy picture of the company. What else would you expect? It amazes me any wfger would embarrass themselves and wfg to tell such a weak and easily verifiable lie. Yet many do.
Five lessons from my wfg experience:
1) take nothing a wfger tells you on faith. Verify *everything* with full documentation and your own independent research.
2) read the fine print before you sign anything. Every word of it!
3) before you sign anything or give wfg a dime, make sure your agent gives you full documentation to take home and thoroughly read over. If you consider any policy, especially a policy with many moving parts like the ffiul, demand a full quote on your ffiul *including all the contract terms and conditions and policy data.*
4) give it to an independent qualified fee-only Not just “fee-based”) financial advisor who does not sell life insurance. If your agent won’t give you this full documentation, walk away.
5) your best bet: never start with this deeply dishonest organization!
Did an WFG agent sell you Transamerica’s FFIUL? Did this agent reassure you that “your cash value will grow to cover your all your premiums?” Did he even tell you “you’ll pay it off in ‘20’ or ‘25’ years?” How can you know for sure? I show you how here!
You’ll pay $100,000, $200,000 and more into your FFIUL over your life. You’ll want to verify your agent’s claims. You have a *right* to understand the numbers in your policy.
The great news: You *can* understand the numbers. The FFIUL math is much easier than you think.
But first, here’s a quick reality check to tell you why you really NEED understand the FFIUL numbers:
If you already bought the FFIUL, go to the Cost of Insurance (COI) on page ~25 of the FFIUL policy. Don’t let the agent tell you “don’t worry, you don’t have to pay those COI charges.
Please remember folks: This policy is a CONTRACT between you and Transamerica. Please know those COI numbers shown in your contract are the ones YOU AGREE TO PAY when you sign on the dotted line. You are *legally bound* to pay COI charges as high as those listed in the chart in your contract. If you haven’t yet bought the policy, ask your WFG to print out a copy of the policy *you will sign* and use the numbers from that COI chart.
Above all gentlepeople, please do NOT let the agent give you data based ONLY on his illustration software. You MUST make sure use the numbers you find printed on your contract and ONLY those numbers. Those are the ONLY valid numbers that apply to you!
One more note. Going forward in this review, I’ll use ACTUAL data from a copy of a *real* FFIUL policy that a FFIUL policyholder who kindly lent to me and who bought this policy in early 2016.
OK, now that we’re clear on all that, let’s proceed with the reality check :-)
Use a calculator--most phones have this--to add up all the COI multipliers on or near page 25. Let’s say you are a 35yo non-smoker male buying a $500k FFIUL. For you, those multipliers are, or close to, $0.09333 for age 35, $0.0975 for age 36, etc. All they way up to $9.98583 for age 85. Add up those multipliers you find on your COI chart. E.g. from age 35 to 85, these add up to $102.38.
Then multiply that sum by 6,000 (500 x 12). It’s 6,000 because the listed COI factors are for each $1,000 of Death Benefit and for each month of the year. Thus “500” for your $500,000 policy and “12” because 12 months in the year.
Your final result: $102.38 x 6,000 = **$614,289** Guess what?--That’s more than your Death Bennie!" And that’s just your COI charges. Add in the other monthly fees for that same 50-year stretch. Your total comes to well over *$700,000.*
But wait, it gets worse. MUCH worse. Take it forward just another five years higher, to age 90. That spikes your total policy costs costs to over **1.2 million dollars.** More than twice your Death Bennie.
This stark reality check should make you ask: Does the FFIUL EVEN MAKE SENSE? Especially if you come from a family of long-living people.
Folks, WFG agents have at least two incentives to sell FFIULs. First they earn fat commissions on them--$3,000, $5,000, and more. Second, WFG’s compensation plan favors selling Transamerica products. But is the FFIUL a good deal for you as it is for them? More to the point, will you be able to afford to pay the premiums until you die? Or will the rapidly accelerating late-life Cost of Insurance (COI) charges exhaust your policy’s cash value and force you to drop this FFIUL when you’re in your 70s or 80s? Causing you to LOSE all the money you faithfully fed into it? Leaving your heirs with NOTHING?
At the very least, please demand your WFG agent show you the actual math--again using a CALCULATOR, NOT his illustration software--to *prove* to you that your cash will cover your all your premiums.
But before you ask him for CALCULATOR-derived math, please get ready and do your OWN math first. This way, you can double-check your agent's figures. Here I show you how to do this math. BY LAW, your FFIUL policy and its issuers MUST supply you with all the DATA you need to let you calculate and understand all the math in your own FFIUL.
You can even calculate how old you’ll be when skyrocketing late-life Cost of Insurance (COI) charges will exhaust your policy’s cash value. This is very important because, as shown in the reality check above, once you reach your 70s and 80s, your COI charges will be prohibitively high, quite possibly forcing you to LOSE your policy. For example a healthy non-smoking man at age 75 will pay **over $21,000** that year just in COI charges. You can experiment with different premium levels to learn in advance how long you can expect your policy to last.
So grab your calculator and let’s go! If you know how to use a spreadsheet, so much the better--you’ll make short work of this task and put a very fine point on the math. You can use Google Sheets for free to make your spreadsheet. However you crunch the numbers, you’ll *know* the real score with your FFIUL.
I first show you how to do the math. Then I give you an example.
It may look complex but your FFIUL boils down to seven financial elements--two credit inputs and five expenses. You can deal with them all with basic math. Your FFIUL’s two credits are the monthly premium you pay and the interest that Transamerica credits to your Index Account once per year. Your FFIUL pays five monthly expenses. These expenses are the COI charge, Premium Expense Charge, Policy Fee, Policy Monthly Expense Charge (aka Face Value/Death Benefit Charge), and Index Account Charge. The two biggies here are your Premiums and the COI charges. Where you’re younger, your net cash inflow exceeds total expenses and your Cash Value grows. As you get older, your COIs start to catapult higher, causing your Cash Value growth to peak out and then to start to fall, ever faster, often plunging to zero as you hit your late 70s/early 80s, forcing you to pay huge monthly premiums or LOSE your policy.
In Dec 2017, Christopher Lee (Agent # 42IUX) hired me to be his Base Shop Coordinator, I worked 3 weeks in December. He was to pay me on December 22 for 2 weeks of work and then every 2 weeks thereafter. He called me on December 22 to tell me all of his teams business was rejected due to a change that his entire team was unaware of and so he was not getting paid until after the 1st. He lead me to believe he was going to pay me $1,000 per week and told me on December 22 that he could only pay me $500 for those 3 weeks I worked. After a lengthy conversation ad me telling Chris I could not work the hours he was needing for only $500 per week, we settled on $1,000 after the first of the year.
We kept in contact as he was working on a lead program that was “Going to make him millions this year” (His words) and there would be no problem paying me at that point. The first of February we spoke again about me terms of working as his BSC and I asked him “How confident are you that you will be able to pay me weekly?” His exact words “100% sure, with this new program my entire team will be making money.” So, I started working on this project for him (literally working from 7 am – 12/1 am). February 16th, he was suppose to pay me $2,000, but he sent me a text saying he opened a new bank account and his money was on hold (I believed this as I know this happens when you open a new
account and put a check in for a lot of money). I was told the first hold would be released on February 26th and the rest on March 5th and from that point on I would be paid consistently. On February 27th he sent a text saying that Tayo cancelled a policy and he was not getting paid (not sure what that had to do with the money he had in the bank and promised to pay me from). Apparently, he lied about having all of that money in the bank pending release. Long story short, it is April 25th and I still have not been paid by Christopher Lee. One might ask “Why did you work with him so long?” My husband was an agent with WFG at the time and I was referred to him by a guy we worked with in our
previous business, so I trusted him that the money was there and it was just waiting to be released. Every time I ask about my money, Chris sends me several pages of text messages about how the money will come with the leads being worked and it just takes time and he just doesn’t understand how I could quit on him and not fight through the storm. Well, I told him upfront that since my husband was just getting started in the business and not making money yet, that I needed a job that could pay me weekly (I did not agree to work based on when he would receive HIS commission and I was VERY upfront before taking on this project). He agreed to pay me weekly…not based on when HE got paid, but
weekly. I spoke to his upline, Hanna Horenstein, who assured me I would get paid (this was back in March), to this day, April 30, I have written his upline Hanna Horenstein again as well as WFG Corporate office and have not so much as received a courtesy response back. This tells me they don't care how their Agents treat their employees. These are the various responses and lies (over the course of 45days) I get when I ask when he's going to pay me: I'm sorry for, yet, another misunderstanding apparently: I let you just spend last week preparing to make money. The money will come from the lead program and we haven't even started yet. Just try to make sure we're up to speed from
day one. So, I said two weeks, meaning, two weeks from the day you start, which was yesterday. I thought I was clear from the beginning that you were being paid from the lead program. We're getting the leads tomorrow. I'm not sure what you mean by it not looking promising. This is what we are preparing for now. It's a little short of a notice to let me know the day before you're pulling out. Just like you said you had planned to work, if I didn't have you in place, I had planned to look for a full time Base Shop Coordinator to have in place for the beginning of the lead program. I didn't have you to start last week so that you and Chip could work to get through the training, so he could make money from the
leads and you from this portion from day one of the lead program. I don't have time to replace you by tomorrow. That placed all of us in a tough position. I have agents in 13 states, so we're getting leads from 13 states. No can't manage that without a BSC. That's like quitting the day before the grand opening. That's going to affect everyone and it's an almost impossible position to place me in. So, if you misunderstood and expected to get paid this Friday, by starting yesterday, that means you get paid next Friday. I don't know your situation, but seeing the program starts this week, will the difference of one week alter things by that much? Did I not say when the lead program began, that's what would find
the position? We're literally getting the leads tomorrow, so I'm not sure what your uncertainty is based on. When you asked me last week what day you were getting started, I thought you understood then, you hadn't been working yet, because you were completing the Advisorist training. That's all coming from the same place. We haven't made money yet. That's why I went with Vanillasoft, because it gave me a 30 free trial. I was ensuring we would be ready from day one without incurring expense. Once we start making money from this program it won't ever stop again. This is what Joe and I were communicating on the call last night. It's going to get a little out of hand. We're working now to organize to
manage the chaos! I haven't made money in 2018 in preparation for this moment when we will make up for anything we lost leading up to it. We will make 3-4x's what we made in 2017, so I've just been working to get us ready to fully capitalize on everything from the start. That way we won't lose out in revenues we would have made if we had been more organized. Once we begin, NO ONE will have any cash flow gaps. Like...ever! Btw, the funds will be released on the 26 and March 5, so I will send you the other $1000 on Monday and then $2000 on the 5th. From that point forward, it will be consistent. Then, then the first significantly large cycle we have, I will include the remaining $1500 I owe you along
with your regular pay. Then, we'll be caught up. I'm sure that will happen in March. Sorry for the inconvenience. I was not aware that would happen, but I never deposited that much at once before to a new account. They said they won't hold it like this next time. Not sure. But still meeting with my friends over the next couple of days to secure the other funds. I will keep you posted. I'm going to ensure we're funded! Then, the grow we produce in the next couple of weeks will create a cushion so a budget this tight will be a thing of the past. Really tired, but I am working on interviewing these teams before I go to bed. I am going to get this stabilized. You're the overall coordinator for the overall Baseshop and it's
my responsibility. Ryan has a base shop coordinator, too. Things just didn't time out, mainly, due to out not getting the leads that were originally scheduled for MID-DECEMBER, so there's that. Instead they came TWO MONTHS after we expected them and I'm not sure why, but that threw everything off. So, everything I have done has been in response to that not coming when it was scheduled to come, but still working like it was coming at each deadline that was missed for two months. Well, that created a bind for me, because I had to prepare as though we had income, yet without income. So, I have been finding things out of my own pocket so far. ALL of it. But, hopefully, you see how much we're going to all
make literally within a matter of a few weeks. Probably as soon as the week after next, when Ryan gets through a lot of appointments and all of the agents begin taking their own appointments. As I told you before, soon we will see $20K months and by the end of the year, we will all be at $50-$100K months! So, what we are really looking at is just carrying this for a couple of weeks. I sent an email this morning to one of the people on my list for $20K. I am confident I will have what I need in a few days. I apologize that this is affecting you. I solved the problem last week and we should have had $7500 this week outright. But Tyo caused that to get eaten. When she replaces the money in her policy in a day or
two, we get that back, as well. Sorry for the delay and thanks for your patience and work. We're all going to harvest from all the hard work we've planted soon! I understand you frustration. I am, too. You will be caught up by Monday if we just keep working like it's coming. That will be why it comes next week and then comes every week. I know it doesn't help, but up to now, I haven't gotten paid either. But, I am encouraged, because have experienced how fast it comes once we set regular solid appointments. Think about the fact that for every three appointments that show for FNA's, etc., one will pay. When every agent has 3 appointments a week and then 3 a day, it's going to be crazy. Until then, I will
cover you. Again, I had it covered this week, but one of my agents did something stupid that screwed up all of us, just because she didn't bother t communicate with HER agent, even though she herself is an experienced agent. That was just dumb! That's why you didn't get paid yesterday. I had $4500 becoming available yesterday, then another $3000 tomorrow that she wiped out! SMH Believe me, I am frustrated about that as much or more than you. Yet, I am still working it out to keep everything going. That's what entrepreneurs do. Problems arise and I solve them. I am solving this one now. I'll get you caught up. Let's just keep working like it's coming and it will happen. That's how I made
$300K last year and will make over $1M this year. So, will you two! It's just taken time to get to this point. Now, that everything is in place, it won't take long. You will see next week when Ryan's calendar opens up for multiple appointments a day. The following week is when it all starts to pick up. By the next week, it will be great! In a month, it will be crazy! FYI, on the phone with Tyo and her attorney renegotiated and she got a settlement of $20K instead of $12K. This is all working out!! Crystal that major chargeback last week through off my ENTIRE budget, which was very tight before that. I told you I had some other things in the works and that one of my guys would come through. Well, he
did. It just so happens that he sold an investment property that closes today. He is loaning me money for my business, not as much as I asked, but enough to get you the $3K told you I was aiming for. I am waiting to hear back from him this morning about how quickly the money will transfer, but this is guaranteed. As soon as it closes, records and the money is wired to him, he's sending it to me and I will send to you. I will keep you updated. I am SO VERY sorry to have contributed to this situation, Crystal, but I appreciate your being flexible and resourceful , so we can keep things rolling! You'll have your salary as soon as that process is completed. As long as we maintain the progress we're making, soon the
business will produce at a level to more than accommodate all of our needs! Heading into meetings soon. Thanks for your patience and, again, I will keep you posted! I am the one who should apologize. Things happened beyond my control, but that doesn't matter, because you're depending on your check being consistent to handle your business and it's my job to ensure it is. I understand you had to do what you had to do. All will be consistent very soon. You're seeing the progress and your a driving force why we're making such progress, so again, I appreciate your resilience and loyalty to the team to continue to build together a legacy for all of our families! Yes, there was a slight delay from Monday, but
that's handled now and he's just waiting on the transfer. Should happen any day now. I'm sorry for the delay. I need it to come in, too, for multiple business related deadlines. I will update ASAP. It was supposed to close Monday, but the lender had not sent the payoff from his requesting it three weeks ago! Murphy's Law, I guess. Coming soon though. Today is the last day for the buyer to deposit the funds so I hope to get news today. I will let you know as soon as I know. I wish I had heard something already, but I am eagerly expecting good news! He knows how important this is and the urgency, so as soon as it breaks he'll let me know and I will relay the good news! I'm trying to work out the transfer.
His wife had a death in the family, so I am trying to be respectful. We are workin through it now before the banks close. Contact you later this evening. Trying to make sure they don't hold the funds again He didn't make the deposit, because he was with Family until after the banks closed. Hopefully, today. It's delicate with the death of a near relative. He knows we need it, so I'm sure it will be today. That's why I had to postpone the meeting, because Joe and Ryan weren't available and I was trying to ensure the funds got transferred in a way they would be immediately available. We just ran out of time. Still tied waiting to hear from him. Again, they had a death and his family is experiencing some other
personal challenges this week, but not financial. We are all waiting on this transfer, but I encourage continued patience. We'll get it in soon and we're already working on the next funding to ensure we have no further lapses. I know it's tough, but we have to be patient. Everyone and every family experiences grief differently. I must give him a little more time. The good news is once it comes, we will be good from then going forward! Not sure why "tied" is in there. Still waiting... Did you mean to leave the Facebook group today? Yes, I have to find a job that will pay me. I'm not feeling too confident I'm ever getting paid. Too many excuses and nothing happening. I can't keep waiting and hoping. This has been too
stressful. I am sorry that's the case, but do you not think we are all stressed. Everyone is being affected and everyone is hanging in there. I'm sure you see all the messages from our team consisting of contractors from various countries. If you can hang in there, it won't be long. I am doing my best to be considerate of everyone. I can only do what I can however. I'm not sure what you're seeing, what gives you the impression you won't get paid along with everyone else or what what you're classifying as "excuses", but we are all waiting on he same thing. I don't think we can call someone's near relative passing away as an excuse. If not for that, we would have had the money on Monday when her got it. He
had family obligations that are a higher priority than our immediate need. Once he sends it however, we'll be back in business. But, ultimately you have to do what you think is best. All I can do is update you as to what's going on. But, I'm not sure what getting paid has to do with staying in or leaving the group. That just causes a scene and hurts what we're working hard to accomplish overall...including you an Chip's business. I'm sorry that you have been negatively impacted, but I help you know we all have been equally impacted negatively. We will correct this and move on to better days, because we have a good system and tons of opportunity. I hope you can see beyond the immediate to long term
victory. That's what's keeping us grounded through this temporary discomfort so we can win terminally. Not sure how you can judge a $500 billion dollar company based on a temporary cashflow lapse in my business. That would be shortsighted. I just attended an event this weekend and this is our larger team. The company is successful. That's what I don't waiver in my commitment. I have made hundreds of thousands in the past and my mentors have made millions, tens of millions and hundreds of millions. Chip is going to need your support. Don't fail to see the forest for the trees. Thad fine if you don't want to work for me. That's up to you. But, don't shoot your self in the foot. Jaime built that team
over 18 years. That was without social media and all the things we are building. We will build a team that size in a fraction of the time. Keep your eyes on long term goals and not temporary discomfort. That's a good general principle to live by. Chip is going be PHENOMENAL at this business very soon. You can help or hurt that. It's all up to you. Btw, I'm going to pay you whether you stay or go. I keep my word, even if for some reason it's delayed beyond my control. I encourage you to take some time to re-evaluate and let's talk again. I think you may be conflating unrelated issues and that appears to be producing inaccurate conclusions about the overall company, as well as, its ability to produce what you
want both short term and long term. It really doesn't take that long to generate income in the business once we get things going in the next 24 hours. You will see this whether you stay or go, by I am doing best advise you in advance of that so you won't feel short-changed, if you leave, when things literally EXPLODE over the next 60 days! I am engaging you, because I want to help you accomplish your goal, so I don't want YOU to miss out over a temporary situation, especially, because I failed to explain to you how things will begin to develop in a short amount of time. We will be 1000 strong by convention in August She hasn't gotten her settlement yet, so she hasn't even replaced her premium yet. Joe's
still in the hole Hers is an unusually big case That one hurt We're holding this machine to pay us ALL BIG TIME! When we start getting paid soon, we'll ALL get paid! It's going soon! I am an independent Contractor. I own my own business. You're communicating my private business is a violation of confidentiality, trust and proprietary secrets. The business you have with me is with me only. I am asking you and Chip to stop calling Hanna about business you have with me. You are affecting my business adversely. I will pay you what I owe you, but I have not had it until, literally, a couple of hours ago. I will settle things with you, but your speeding misinformation about me is not helping your case. I don't work for
Hanna. Your business is with me. Your supposition is correct. I don’t, yet, have the resources. I will contact you once I can credibly set a payment date. As you know, I had some major setbacks that impacted my ability to generate income just when had optimized a working system, some completely unrelated to you, but others of which you are aware, including losing my assistant without notice in the middle of a revenue producing project when I didn’t have a replacement. Otherwise, I most likely would have been able to generate the income to pay you and many others by now. As it stands, we are working on it. The meeting for funding that I shared with you in confidence was pushed back.
But I won’t say when, because every time I share information about my personal business matters with you, you call up someone completely unresponsible for such matters and I get a meeting discussing such matters with - Hanna, home office, etc. - to no avail, aside from putting my personal business in the streets, since no one aside from me has jurisdiction in this matter. So, again, I will contact you once I can a payment date that I can keep. Working with me through the problems would have been much more profitable. You don’t seem to understand that I am an independent contractor and WFG is not responsible for any personal debt or business arrangement. But, you’ll soon discover that. I’ve
already spoken with them about this. So, you do what you feel you have to. You’ll be in for a big surprise, however and you definitely won’t get what you want. I only owed you 5,500. If you want to fight over that instead of waiting until I can send it, you do what you feel you have to. Whatever that is will disappoint you drastically, however. You’ll see. You’ve made this something it never had to be. Your loss. I used to be a licensed mediator for the state of CA court system. I mediated cases like this all the time. The courts would rather not deal with stuff like this. So, I clearly know my options. I told you I don’t have anything to give you, it you would rather keep trying to shame me. This is the
person who uses the term Christian. Read Matthew 18 or Romans 6 lately? I haven’t been able to pay some others and they haven’t quit. That was your choice. That’s not hateful. That’s facts You betrayed my confidence What’s the price for that? Apparently, $5500 I am broke from helping ungrateful people like you, Crystal. And it is coming back. Not worried about that at all. You’re pretty juvenile, like junior high juvenile. I’ll pay you, but you’ll get your reward elsewhere. I didn't lie to you. We just struggled to get things going and I'm sorry you interpreted it otherwise aside from our struggling through some unexpected challenges to get things off the ground. The last time I paid you, I literally
paid you my last and my family did without after I paid bills to keep things going, because I know how close we are. I'm sorry I couldn't pay you time and I'm sorry you think I wasn't telling you the truth: I was 100% transparent with you both. I am independent contractor and this doesn't fall under any company guidelines and they have no authority to force me to do anything. Because you thought I was "holding out" on you, you went to my upland and sought to defame and embarrass me. On top of that, you walked away and left me scrambling, in fact, we're still attempting to recover from that and both of you told me not to contact you any more. We were and still are having a hard time putting this business
together, but instead of you guys hanging in there with us to build something that will take care of us, our children and our children's children, you walked away and left me hanging even though I was keeping you informed literally every day. I don't appreciate that. Now, I am sorry things didn't materialize and I couldn't pay you on time. That was never the plan. But, nothing in my business was Hanna's business! You don't know our relationship or anything about anything, but you didn't consider how you might affect any of my business dealings as long as you got what you wanted! So, no, I didn't have all your money and I didn't rush once I got it, but choose rather to prioritize hose who were loyal to me,
since you went behind my back and didn't give me any type of notice, like even a day or at least showed someone, anyway what you were doing or what your processes were. You punished everyone in your dissatisfaction with me. I don't appreciate it at all. So, I will pay you out of the next round of funding we're working on procuring now. I barley had enough to handle everything with that last amount to keep highs afloat. So, you can try to make me look bad or whatever else you feel you need to do. It won't make me come up with the money any faster than I am now. I explained to you I haven't gotten paid since May, so I didn't have it. But, I anticipated making enough to handle the growth
sooner. It didn't happen that way. The next round, we are asking for $50K. When I get $50K, as opposed to $5K, then I will send you your $6K. Until then, I'll be busy working to get everyone paid in my team. That's what I'm all about. The last time I sent you money, Crystal, I sent you literally the LAST of my money to pay you first. It doesn't even matter that I'm telling you that, because you won't believe it and tell other people who have nothing to do with this that I am a "liar" and "scam artist". That's your prerogative. God knows the truth. Once we get going, out company will clear over $1M 12 months from the date we get going at full capacity. When we do, I will reward those who stuck around through
the tough times, foggy along side each other, gritted it out and built an incredible company that we can be proud of and that takes care of all our families and many others. By then, I'll long ago have sent your $6K and this conversation and any discomfort any of us felt will be a distant memory. Thank you both for the contributions you made while we were putting this together. You really helped all of us in those initial weeks. If you had just taken me at my word and continued to work with me like the team of contractors I still have in place who live half way around the world, but who hind in there with me, we could have built together. If you had been willing to function as partners, I would have made
you partners. But, I guess, maybe, you don't believe things will work out as I have envisioned. Instead, you choose to throw me under the bus like disgruntled employees. Time will tell. I'll pay you your money as soon as I have it. I'll let you know coming out of this meeting with Ryan, the investor and me next week. We'll do our best to help you meet the deadline for your move to Louisiana, even though you couldn't care less about our team deadlines. I pray all goes as you have envisioned, as well. No one was getting paid, Crystal and I told you why. We were all hurting You walked away, left me hanging and attempted to make me look bad. Look. I'm done. All I ever do is busy my butt for everyone. I'll sorry
you didn't get paid. I don't appreciate how you handled it. You don't know me. Last year, I spent about $50-60K out of my pocket for my team. If I had it now, I would have with no problem. I don't have it. When I do, you will get it. My concern is everyone's family on my team. That's what I'm building for. To take care of everyone. Not just my family. If I were just out for me, I would have taken Jeremiah's training and done what was only good for me. But, that's not who I am. That's why I still have a team. I have gone to batt for them in the past and they are loyal and they trust me. If you
stick around you would see the same. In fact, one of the reasons I do have much liquid now if because I spent it on them, sometimes helping them out of financial jams. That's who I am. Not someone who abuses people. I help them. Well, now, I need a help and consideration. Those who help me, help them will receive the reward of what I'm doing for them. Others will get disgruntled, demand what belongs to them and walk away. I can only be where I am. When I get your money, I'll send it.
World Financial Group- Shirlene Reeves WFG Be cautious of the MLM company... these people are completely uneducated in the field of financial wealth and management... Ms. Reeves placed me in an "insurance policy” that is in the worst annuity possible... the guarantee was 6% over a ten year period as promised by Reeves and when Ing was later bought by Voya, my terms changed. Fees are actually higher and I will end up losing money when the policy matures! SCAM, world financial group and Shirlene Reeves beware!
I am here to file a personal and company complaint against a WFG Agent Christopher Cobb #0H7008. He is unprofessional and a liar. His entire speech is a lie and he scams people into policies and joining his team under false pretences. However the main reason why I am contacting you today is because Chris Cobb is a terrible person. An absolute fraud and he is threatening my livelihood. He needs to be fired and never allowed to work in this industry again. How can anyone trust him with their life savings or any money at all. He is crossing the lines of Defamation of Character and I will file a lawsuit against him and whoever he works for if he refuses to stop. If someone in corporate can contact me please, I would really appreciate it. I am at my wits end with this man and the people I have referred to him are willing to cancel their policy or transfer to another company.
I would like someone from this company to answer a huge question that I think are extremely valuable to anyone seriously considering being apart of this type of business (including myself). Now that being said, if no one does answer the questions its pretty obvious that this is fishy and a scam.
Full explaination below but here is the question:
WHERE DOES THE MONEY TO PAY EVERYONE COME FROM?
I personally have been approched by a friend about this business to sell life insurance and use it as an investment for long term. Of course it sounds great and perfect and it seems as if the product is legit.
Now Im NOT going to automatically call it a MLM scheme because a MLM scheme is signing up a mass amount of people under you in which the upfront cost partially goes to you and the people above in the hope that they get people below them.
For that to be entirely true, I would have to prove that the $100 "background check" is PARTIALLY going to the people above. In which they even make money if you dont do anything but sign up. Which I DONT really think is the case here.
It seems like there is a large amount of people in this company and the people that put in the Hard work actually make a decent amount of money. I was told that someone putting in the hard work will be earning at least +$50K yearly. Now someone way up the chain can make as much as +$500k a year.
I was told that the big conventions range about 20k people so I think can safely assume that throughout this company there is at least 100K people that put in $100 to just get started (which includes the people that dont do anything and fall off entirely).
I think I can safely assume that at least %5 are hard working.
So undershooting everything by large amount, 5k people x $50k is $250million yearly.
Now let me assume that all those people actually pay ~$100 a month because they have the life insurance that they are trying to sell.
100k people x $100 a month x 12 months = $120million yearly
why not add $100 "background check" to everyone adds another $10million.
to even break even 100K more people would have to just get the insurance.
WHERE DOES THE MONEY TO PAY EVERYONE COME FROM?
All this money should be going to these people's insurance and I do understand how the insurance business works- get the money now invest it and pay these people later when they need it or when they die etc. BUT no smart business would use this model because its a losing money model. I dont want to make assumptions about the ethics of this company. But can someone at least make sense of this for me.
Honestly, if I feel that I am given a legit answer. I will join and start making money, but if I join this I dont want it to fall apart after I have invested my time and my family and friends time/money.
I was presented with an annuity investment were guarantees were promised and did not disclose the higher fees from what I was paying with Vanguard and my initials were foreged in taking off the guarantees on the investment without me knowing utnil I started to call call the company directly myself. I am locked in for 7 years without being able to move my funds without paying enormous fees if I move them.
Well I was wondering can I get my $100 back after you regretfully join because it's an opportunity not a job.