The author of this post is spot on. Ruined 7 years of my life chasing a false dream and reality. To make any money in amway you need
To be one the first in the market. Examples, Brent Harris and mike waechter Des Moines, Paul kopecky Kansas City market. Wonder if the mike and Jana waechter divorce will send ripples through the organization
Due Diligence on the Amway business mode. Below are a list of documents and questions to bring to your upline and along with examples of failed Amway business owners who have essentially wasted 10+ years of their life building a fruitless business.
1. During your open meeting invite LTD will claim that a $2-3K a month income is possible, working as little as 5-15 hours per week, achievable in the next 18 months, with a 6-4-2 business structure.
-From my years involved with the group of leaders mentioned above, no IBO who is at the platinum level is working 5-15 hours per week. Be expected to work at least 30+ hours per week to achieve this income. The work includes but not limited to, weekly open meetings, Sunday team calling sessions, nightly travel to show the plan, and or cold contacting potential representatives at random stores such as Walmart and Target. At the platinum level, be prepared for four major weekend functions per year, three/four leadership functions, a team meeting once every 6 weeks, thus 50% of available weekends will be filled up with a LTD/Amway sponsored meeting/function. I would challenge your upline LTD Platinum to swear on a bible that they only work 5-15 hours per week in the business to achieve this income level.
-During the initial open meeting, LTD/Amway present a business structure of sponsoring six, who sponsor four, who sponsor two. If this perfect structure were to be achieved, then a $2-3k per month income is possible. The reality is very few, if any IBOs have a perfect 6,4,2 business structure. Most who achieve the 7500 PV level, will have a tap root leg with 4000-4500, and side legs who are at 1000-2500 PV. Because the business volume is not evenly distributed, the $2-3K check that is presented is almost always far less. I would recommend asking your platinum level upline for copies of Amway checks when they were at the above levels. Once at the platinum level a LTD IBO is eligible to receive tool money for recruiting others into the organization. I would highly recommended reading the LTD tool money agreement and ask for a signed document from LTD owner Larry Winter guaranteeing tool money once the level of business is reached. There have been to many lawsuits against Amway and other tool providers where the CEO/Owner of the motivational tool group, shut a distributor out of monies for little to no reason.
-Also presented will be income opportunities of a six-figure income for helping 3 IBOs spread through 3 separate legs, achieving the silver level or above (7500). The speaker will make this sound easy and present this as an opportunity to walk away from a job in the next 2-5 years. The reality is very few, if any have ever achieved an Emerald level that quickly and less than a handful of people have left a full-time job without a retirement or pension on the Waechter team. Mike Waechter the upline diamond has been in the Amway business since 1996/1997. During this time frame Waechter has easily 10,000+ plugged in distributors (attending functions, buying tools, weekly meetings etc.), most of which have come and gone like a revolving door. The only Emeralds who have successfully left a job out of thousands of plugged in distributors, were Paul Kopecky, Brett Harris (has a retirement from the military and Des Moines PD), Kevin S (Brett Harris team) and Brad Berendes. I will acknowledge others have achieved the Emerald pin; however the business structure was not solid enough to replace full time incomes. The odds of reaching an Emerald ship through the Waechter team are slim to none. The numbers speak for themselves.
2. The lack of Profit/Loss Statements, and the non-disclosure of expenses in order to build the business
-The disclosure of the business expenses during open meetings is minimal if nonexistent. As mentioned above to build this business properly the investment of time is 30+ hours per week. Below I will disclose the investment required to simply build a platinum structured business model.
-Amway products - Each month your upline will pressure oneself to do 150 PV/300 PV for a married couple in one's personal circle. What I found was overpriced products and the concept of replacing "walmart" type shopping was 30-50% more expensive through the Amway business model. Factoring in that I redirected my shopping habits, I was still out of pocket $200-300 a month to achieve my PV goals in order to satisfy my upline.
-Investment in LTD tools, and functions- A substantial investment is required to be a "plugged in" IBO. Your upline will require you to spend at least $100-250 month on motivational downloads and recommended books (often times at a huge markup). In addition, once the platinum level is achieved you will be required to attend four major functions, three/four leadership functions, "Go Diamond Weekend" in Orlando, Markiewicz "heart of a leader" typically held in Chicago." The cost of a function ticket is typically $125, plus room/board and expenses associated with travel. Be prepared as a Platinum to have $800-1000 a month of expenses associated with tools, travel, subscriptions, cell phone, and car depreciation.
-During my time involved with LTD, very few business owners kept an accurate profit/loss statement and balance sheet. When speaking on stage or bragging about a bonus check, IBOs simply disclose what their top line revenue is. Never, will they speak about the expenses or present an audited Profit Loss Statement. I would demand your upline to provide a profit/loss and balance sheet for the last 3 fiscal years and verify if their incomes are truly what they represent to new prospects.
**I still have nightmares at night thinking of how many business owners under the LTD/Markiewicz/Waechter business model have upside down profit/loss statements and balance sheets. I would ask Waechter to draw out his group and estimate the profit (+ or -) in each of his IBOs he has signed up underneath him. I remember Q12s being broke at conferences having to share rooms with other married couples, traveling on buses, and certainly not being able to afford a decent meal out. What I soon discovered well over 99% of active/plugged in business owners were upside down in this business model. While the remote possibility exists for a few to have a six-figure success, it will always come on the backs of other business owners who have negative profit/loss statement and an upside balance sheet.
3. LTD cultish environment-
Below are warning signs of a dangerous organization:
Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
• No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
• No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget or expenses, such as an independently audited financial statement. Speaks for itself, the expenses are never clearly communicated nor is it recommended to keep a clean profit/loss statement.
• Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
• There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
Once followers leave the business, they are completely deified and spoken negatively upon. I have witnessed uplines ripping up pictures of a Q12 who left the business and calling them all "broke losers." Uplines are terrified once a downline wakes up, that the downline will "brainwash" current business owners to also leave.
• Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
Every former IBO talks about the nightmare experience of functions, LTD, stresses, sleep deprivation, financial difficulties.
• There are records, books, news articles, or broadcast reports that document the abuses of the group/leader.
Very little exists on Joe Markiewicz or Larry Winters. I would go back and read articles on how Bill Britt and Dexter Yaeger using free masons such as Jim Baker to brainwash the organization.
• Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
• The group/leader is always right.
• The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
4. Q12 on the Waechter team who have quit the business.-Corey and Stacy Lessmann- 1997- April 2000. Corey was a Sioux City school teacher who built up a Q12 business structure, supposedly making $2-3k a month. Had a falling out with Mike Waechter/ Markiewicz and left the business. To cover up Lessman's absence, the upline told followers he left to start his own ministry. That was proven to be a lie.
-Rob and Lisa Hutchinson - 1998- Fall of 2005. Young couple, four or five kids, spent 7 years in the LTD system building up their business model. I would ask Waechter directly if Rob and Lisa still cut a residual check from building the business. My hunch is they wasted 7 year of their life for a 0 profit.
-Troy and Cara Kern- 1998-2008. Sioux City couple who reached Q12 level, one leg away from achieving Emerald Ship, and suddenly quit the business. Highly likely they are receiving no residual income and once again wasted 10 years of their life showing the plan night after night for a 0 result.
-Steve and Kristie Drent- 1998-2010/2011ish- Steve drove thousands of miles, would tell the group of sleeping on Waechter's couch several times a month to build this business. Preached all the 8 team steps, told his group that he would host functions one day and his kids would work the door. Another example of wasting a decade of his life, missing kids functions, sleep deprivation, stress, and eventually quit the business.
-Chad and Cherice Greenway- 1999-2012.. Same story as above. Chad would build the business night after night, preached the 8 team steps, spent countless hours only to abruptly quit the business with his wife in 2012. Matter of fact about killed himself on ice covered roads doing a fruitless meeting weekly in Kearney. For those who were a part of Greenways team, he would refer to former IBOs as broke losers and had this strong hatred for everyone who quit his organization. Stop talking to his childhood friend Justin Kavan and burned a major bridge with many people in his life.
-Brian and Jodi Farley 1998-presents- Brian and Jodi have been building this business for 20+ years. The group was told that Farley would retire from a gas station back in 2001/2002. It was always the same lines, "were fired up", "emerald is right around the corner", "another 3 months until emerald qualification. Brian was one of the most plugged in IBOs and was Mike Waechter’s puppet when attempting to build the business. Mike would edify Brian in the early 2000s as his youngest guy to break through and make six figures in the business. Unfortunately, none of this came to fruition and Brian years later has regressed from a Q12 to a platinum level business.
Other facts on Waechter-International:
1. When Waechter achieved the diamond pin in 2005, Amway and Joe Markiewicz allowed him to combine several personal legs into one leg to allow for the PV qualification of 7500. This happened once again with Paul Kopecky, allowing him to achieve diamond last year. I would ask your upline what special privileges will Amway allow my business so I can move around legs and achieve pins faster.
2. When Corey Lessman quit the business in April 2000, Mike was able to inherit another platinum leg quicker, thus accelerating his process to Emerald. Lessman had personally sponsored the Kern Leg, and the Corey Heck leg which had Brad Berendes present. Another lucky break for Waechter.
3. Jana Waechter filed for on January 8, 2019 Case No. CDCD097750. Around the same time, Brett Harris pulled his group out of Waechter International and no longer associates with the Waechter team. Paul Kopecky refused to mention Mike as his upline during his crowning of Diamond. The divorce is only significant because of the claims that high Amway pins have perfect marriages.
4. Pin levels can easily be lost. On the Markiewicz team, only three of his diamonds, Doug Weir, Paul Kopecky, and Joe were present on the last diamond trip to Hawaii. Notably absent were Alan Leininger, Matt Grotewald, and Mike Waechter. The Diamond pin is not a forever pin.
Summary of Documents to request from upline:
1. Profit/Loss balance sheet of last 3 fiscal years, including upline Platinum and Diamond.
2. Signed document from Leadership Team Development guaranteeing tool money for reaching different pin levels.
3. Ask Mike Waechter the following:
a. What percentage of IBOs who achieved Platinum went onto to reach Emerald and retired from a full-time job?
b. Has there ever been an IBO on the teamwork 5-15 hours a week and achieve the Platinum level.
c. What did Steve Drent, Troy Kern, Brian Farley, Corey Lessmann, Rob Hutchinson do incorrectly to not reach the Emerald level?
d. How many active IBOs have a negative Profit/Loss statement who have been in business over 3 years?
e. Why did Brett Harris decide not to associate with the Waechter organization?
f. How many of your original diamond Plantium legs are still building the business?
g. Why does Ryan Medinger after 20+ years of building the business night after night, still work a job?
h. What is the average monthly expense to build a business to a Platinum level?
i. How fortunate were you when Corey Lessman quit the business and how much quicker did you go Emerald?
j. Will Joe Markiewicz go to bat for me, to combine legs into one so I can also achieve diamond faster?
k. What agreements are in place so I can be guaranteed tool money at different levels?
l. Do you feel any remorse for the hundreds of business owners who followed your 8 team player steps, spent countless late nights building the business only to quit years later with nothing to show?
WAECHTER TEAM Reviews
Wasted my life
The author of this post is spot on. Ruined 7 years of my life chasing a false dream and reality. To make any money in amway you need
To be one the first in the market. Examples, Brent Harris and mike waechter Des Moines, Paul kopecky Kansas City market. Wonder if the mike and Jana waechter divorce will send ripples through the organization
Due Diligence on the Amway business mode. Below are a list of documents and questions to bring to your upline and along with examples of failed Amway business owners who have essentially wasted 10+ years of their life building a fruitless business.
1. During your open meeting invite LTD will claim that a $2-3K a month income is possible, working as little as 5-15 hours per week, achievable in the next 18 months, with a 6-4-2 business structure.
-From my years involved with the group of leaders mentioned above, no IBO who is at the platinum level is working 5-15 hours per week. Be expected to work at least 30+ hours per week to achieve this income. The work includes but not limited to, weekly open meetings, Sunday team calling sessions, nightly travel to show the plan, and or cold contacting potential representatives at random stores such as Walmart and Target. At the platinum level, be prepared for four major weekend functions per year, three/four leadership functions, a team meeting once every 6 weeks, thus 50% of available weekends will be filled up with a LTD/Amway sponsored meeting/function. I would challenge your upline LTD Platinum to swear on a bible that they only work 5-15 hours per week in the business to achieve this income level.
-During the initial open meeting, LTD/Amway present a business structure of sponsoring six, who sponsor four, who sponsor two. If this perfect structure were to be achieved, then a $2-3k per month income is possible. The reality is very few, if any IBOs have a perfect 6,4,2 business structure. Most who achieve the 7500 PV level, will have a tap root leg with 4000-4500, and side legs who are at 1000-2500 PV. Because the business volume is not evenly distributed, the $2-3K check that is presented is almost always far less. I would recommend asking your platinum level upline for copies of Amway checks when they were at the above levels. Once at the platinum level a LTD IBO is eligible to receive tool money for recruiting others into the organization. I would highly recommended reading the LTD tool money agreement and ask for a signed document from LTD owner Larry Winter guaranteeing tool money once the level of business is reached. There have been to many lawsuits against Amway and other tool providers where the CEO/Owner of the motivational tool group, shut a distributor out of monies for little to no reason.
-Also presented will be income opportunities of a six-figure income for helping 3 IBOs spread through 3 separate legs, achieving the silver level or above (7500). The speaker will make this sound easy and present this as an opportunity to walk away from a job in the next 2-5 years. The reality is very few, if any have ever achieved an Emerald level that quickly and less than a handful of people have left a full-time job without a retirement or pension on the Waechter team. Mike Waechter the upline diamond has been in the Amway business since 1996/1997. During this time frame Waechter has easily 10,000+ plugged in distributors (attending functions, buying tools, weekly meetings etc.), most of which have come and gone like a revolving door. The only Emeralds who have successfully left a job out of thousands of plugged in distributors, were Paul Kopecky, Brett Harris (has a retirement from the military and Des Moines PD), Kevin S (Brett Harris team) and Brad Berendes. I will acknowledge others have achieved the Emerald pin; however the business structure was not solid enough to replace full time incomes. The odds of reaching an Emerald ship through the Waechter team are slim to none. The numbers speak for themselves.
2. The lack of Profit/Loss Statements, and the non-disclosure of expenses in order to build the business
-The disclosure of the business expenses during open meetings is minimal if nonexistent. As mentioned above to build this business properly the investment of time is 30+ hours per week. Below I will disclose the investment required to simply build a platinum structured business model.
-Amway products - Each month your upline will pressure oneself to do 150 PV/300 PV for a married couple in one's personal circle. What I found was overpriced products and the concept of replacing "walmart" type shopping was 30-50% more expensive through the Amway business model. Factoring in that I redirected my shopping habits, I was still out of pocket $200-300 a month to achieve my PV goals in order to satisfy my upline.
-Investment in LTD tools, and functions- A substantial investment is required to be a "plugged in" IBO. Your upline will require you to spend at least $100-250 month on motivational downloads and recommended books (often times at a huge markup). In addition, once the platinum level is achieved you will be required to attend four major functions, three/four leadership functions, "Go Diamond Weekend" in Orlando, Markiewicz "heart of a leader" typically held in Chicago." The cost of a function ticket is typically $125, plus room/board and expenses associated with travel. Be prepared as a Platinum to have $800-1000 a month of expenses associated with tools, travel, subscriptions, cell phone, and car depreciation.
-During my time involved with LTD, very few business owners kept an accurate profit/loss statement and balance sheet. When speaking on stage or bragging about a bonus check, IBOs simply disclose what their top line revenue is. Never, will they speak about the expenses or present an audited Profit Loss Statement. I would demand your upline to provide a profit/loss and balance sheet for the last 3 fiscal years and verify if their incomes are truly what they represent to new prospects.
**I still have nightmares at night thinking of how many business owners under the LTD/Markiewicz/Waechter business model have upside down profit/loss statements and balance sheets. I would ask Waechter to draw out his group and estimate the profit (+ or -) in each of his IBOs he has signed up underneath him. I remember Q12s being broke at conferences having to share rooms with other married couples, traveling on buses, and certainly not being able to afford a decent meal out. What I soon discovered well over 99% of active/plugged in business owners were upside down in this business model. While the remote possibility exists for a few to have a six-figure success, it will always come on the backs of other business owners who have negative profit/loss statement and an upside balance sheet.
3. LTD cultish environment-
Below are warning signs of a dangerous organization:
Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
• No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
• No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget or expenses, such as an independently audited financial statement. Speaks for itself, the expenses are never clearly communicated nor is it recommended to keep a clean profit/loss statement.
• Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
• There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
Once followers leave the business, they are completely deified and spoken negatively upon. I have witnessed uplines ripping up pictures of a Q12 who left the business and calling them all "broke losers." Uplines are terrified once a downline wakes up, that the downline will "brainwash" current business owners to also leave.
• Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
Every former IBO talks about the nightmare experience of functions, LTD, stresses, sleep deprivation, financial difficulties.
• There are records, books, news articles, or broadcast reports that document the abuses of the group/leader.
Very little exists on Joe Markiewicz or Larry Winters. I would go back and read articles on how Bill Britt and Dexter Yaeger using free masons such as Jim Baker to brainwash the organization.
• Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
• The group/leader is always right.
• The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
4. Q12 on the Waechter team who have quit the business.-Corey and Stacy Lessmann- 1997- April 2000. Corey was a Sioux City school teacher who built up a Q12 business structure, supposedly making $2-3k a month. Had a falling out with Mike Waechter/ Markiewicz and left the business. To cover up Lessman's absence, the upline told followers he left to start his own ministry. That was proven to be a lie.
-Rob and Lisa Hutchinson - 1998- Fall of 2005. Young couple, four or five kids, spent 7 years in the LTD system building up their business model. I would ask Waechter directly if Rob and Lisa still cut a residual check from building the business. My hunch is they wasted 7 year of their life for a 0 profit.
-Troy and Cara Kern- 1998-2008. Sioux City couple who reached Q12 level, one leg away from achieving Emerald Ship, and suddenly quit the business. Highly likely they are receiving no residual income and once again wasted 10 years of their life showing the plan night after night for a 0 result.
-Steve and Kristie Drent- 1998-2010/2011ish- Steve drove thousands of miles, would tell the group of sleeping on Waechter's couch several times a month to build this business. Preached all the 8 team steps, told his group that he would host functions one day and his kids would work the door. Another example of wasting a decade of his life, missing kids functions, sleep deprivation, stress, and eventually quit the business.
-Chad and Cherice Greenway- 1999-2012.. Same story as above. Chad would build the business night after night, preached the 8 team steps, spent countless hours only to abruptly quit the business with his wife in 2012. Matter of fact about killed himself on ice covered roads doing a fruitless meeting weekly in Kearney. For those who were a part of Greenways team, he would refer to former IBOs as broke losers and had this strong hatred for everyone who quit his organization. Stop talking to his childhood friend Justin Kavan and burned a major bridge with many people in his life.
-Brian and Jodi Farley 1998-presents- Brian and Jodi have been building this business for 20+ years. The group was told that Farley would retire from a gas station back in 2001/2002. It was always the same lines, "were fired up", "emerald is right around the corner", "another 3 months until emerald qualification. Brian was one of the most plugged in IBOs and was Mike Waechter’s puppet when attempting to build the business. Mike would edify Brian in the early 2000s as his youngest guy to break through and make six figures in the business. Unfortunately, none of this came to fruition and Brian years later has regressed from a Q12 to a platinum level business.
Other facts on Waechter-International:
1. When Waechter achieved the diamond pin in 2005, Amway and Joe Markiewicz allowed him to combine several personal legs into one leg to allow for the PV qualification of 7500. This happened once again with Paul Kopecky, allowing him to achieve diamond last year. I would ask your upline what special privileges will Amway allow my business so I can move around legs and achieve pins faster.
2. When Corey Lessman quit the business in April 2000, Mike was able to inherit another platinum leg quicker, thus accelerating his process to Emerald. Lessman had personally sponsored the Kern Leg, and the Corey Heck leg which had Brad Berendes present. Another lucky break for Waechter.
3. Jana Waechter filed for on January 8, 2019 Case No. CDCD097750. Around the same time, Brett Harris pulled his group out of Waechter International and no longer associates with the Waechter team. Paul Kopecky refused to mention Mike as his upline during his crowning of Diamond. The divorce is only significant because of the claims that high Amway pins have perfect marriages.
4. Pin levels can easily be lost. On the Markiewicz team, only three of his diamonds, Doug Weir, Paul Kopecky, and Joe were present on the last diamond trip to Hawaii. Notably absent were Alan Leininger, Matt Grotewald, and Mike Waechter. The Diamond pin is not a forever pin.
Summary of Documents to request from upline:
1. Profit/Loss balance sheet of last 3 fiscal years, including upline Platinum and Diamond.
2. Signed document from Leadership Team Development guaranteeing tool money for reaching different pin levels.
3. Ask Mike Waechter the following:
a. What percentage of IBOs who achieved Platinum went onto to reach Emerald and retired from a full-time job?
b. Has there ever been an IBO on the teamwork 5-15 hours a week and achieve the Platinum level.
c. What did Steve Drent, Troy Kern, Brian Farley, Corey Lessmann, Rob Hutchinson do incorrectly to not reach the Emerald level?
d. How many active IBOs have a negative Profit/Loss statement who have been in business over 3 years?
e. Why did Brett Harris decide not to associate with the Waechter organization?
f. How many of your original diamond Plantium legs are still building the business?
g. Why does Ryan Medinger after 20+ years of building the business night after night, still work a job?
h. What is the average monthly expense to build a business to a Platinum level?
i. How fortunate were you when Corey Lessman quit the business and how much quicker did you go Emerald?
j. Will Joe Markiewicz go to bat for me, to combine legs into one so I can also achieve diamond faster?
k. What agreements are in place so I can be guaranteed tool money at different levels?
l. Do you feel any remorse for the hundreds of business owners who followed your 8 team player steps, spent countless late nights building the business only to quit years later with nothing to show?